TLDR: What does independence in Buddhism look like? Zeb shares how awareness, compassion, and acceptance help him to experience some liberation from suffering in daily life.He also discovers what the Buddha’s half-smile represents to him.
Quick quiz, it is the month of August, what comes to mind? Fireworks may come to your mind since it’s the month of the celebration of Independence in 3 countries in Southeast Asia. The 3 countries are: 1) Singapore Independence Day, which is observed on the 9th of August; 2) Indonesia Independence Day on the 17th of August; and 3) Malaysia Independence Day on the 31st of August, respectively.
For me, independence refers to experiencing the fruits of the Dhamma, liberation from the suffering of daily life. Gaining ‘independence’ from the grasp of suffering.
This August, I wish to share my experience with you on how awareness, compassion, and acceptance can help you realise ‘independence’. When we can free ourselves, we are freer to free others of their suffering in turn. As a bonus, I would like to share what the Buddha’s half smile represents to me.
Awareness helps us stay on course:
If we are not aware of what is on the ground that may trip us over, we may suffer serious injury. Looking at suffering when we are suffering can make the pain seem endless. But if we look deeper, we may note that there are two levels of pain.
The Buddha uses the parable of the 2 arrows, with the first arrow being the actual pain, while the second arrow is our reaction to the initial pain. Knowing the difference between them brings to mind that “pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.”
We suffer because we are afflicted by the three poisons in Buddhism – greed, hatred, and delusion. We suffer because we are greedy and desire more. We want that extra serving of ice cream when we are already full leading to unwanted stomachaches.
We suffer because we are angry that we missed out on the popular Taylor Swift concert tickets purchase, while our enemies got lucky. We suffer because we are lost in our own delusional thinking that we should not have to suffer in life.
We ignore the 1stNoble Truth, that “There is Suffering.”
When we are aware and realise how we are afflicted by the three poisons, we may have a chance at suffering less.
We are less caught up with the pattern of clinging, pushing away, or being lost in our faulty thinking that life is unfair just because we suffer in our daily life.
I lost my job as a Counsellor in June 2023. I practised letting go of my desired identity as a healer. I accepted the emotional turmoil that I experienced as I faced the loss of my coveted career. I saw the pain of losing my job and discerned to not burden myself with additional suffering, by playing the blame game.
Pain is pain, we do have to honour the power of pain in its ability to overwhelm our senses. In meditation retreat practice, we are encouraged to watch pain in earnest mindfulness, because pain is also subject to the law of impermanence. Yet the truth remains that some pain may take a little longer to go away than we can handle.
A strategy I found to be helpful in cases where the pain was overwhelming was to apply compassion to myself.
The traditional phrases that we can use to apply compassion go like this: “May I be free from pain and suffering.”
Just reciting the compassionate phrase repeatedly, can have a calming and relaxing effect on us, and I observed that my pain slowly reduces in its intensity, because I was not so tense and uptight about the pain anymore.
I know it works for physical pain because I have not once, but two different hospitalization experiences in the past 4 years, with a combined hospital stay of 26 days in total!
I became an unwilling participant in observing human pains, both of myself and others, in a hospital setting. I am also grateful to have excellent medical care at Singapore’s Hospitals.
Using my medical pain – being hospitalized, was a valuable lesson in understanding suffering. I observed that I can choose to suffer less because I was able to apply mindfulness and compassion in facing my pain with much patience.
There are limits to what painkillers can do to mitigate the pain. I tried to observe the pain mindfully, but my mind was just too confused and distressed under the cocktail combinations of physical pain, painkillers to manage the pain, and the mental pain of being alone in a hospital ward.
I tweaked the compassion phrases to “May I be free from pain and suffering, as much as possible,” given that the strongest painkiller was only capable of dulling the pain so much, and I cannot realistically expect the pain to disappear.
Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly, when I notice that I am more relaxed and accepting of the pain, the suffering naturally reduces in its intensity.
Acceptance of our reality:
The 1st Noble Truth states that “There is Suffering.” No need to run away from suffering. We are not choosing to embrace unnecessary suffering, but we learn not to run away from inevitable suffering.
We are learning not to add the 2nd arrow of suffering, on top of the 1st arrow of pain.
When suffering arises, we can watch it mindfully, and observe the ever-changing nature of the physical, emotional, and mental nature of the suffering.
Acceptance is not about being a defeatist, it is instead a courageous act, to accept reality for what it is. It is having the inner confidence that one can tackle whatever things life throws at us. Of course, we are armoured with the Wisdom of the Buddha’s teaching, to have various practices such as Mindfulness, 4 Brahmavihārā, and Forgiveness, to help us face and overcome the challenges in life.
With mindfulness, I pay attention to my ever-changing thoughts and emotions about the loss of my job. Sending loving kindness to myself, I try to maintain a positive mindset with the inevitable change.
Practising compassion, I strengthen my empathy for myself and others who are affected by layoffs and retrenchment.
I remain joyful for those who have a job now, for they are not suffering from the uncertainty of job loss.
And I try to stay equanimous, knowing that change is inevitable in life and that I will be employed in due time, with the right effort placed in my job search process.
Finally, I try to forgive myself for being less office politics savvy which may have led to my job loss; and I resolve to continue to learn and get mentoring to up my game in the workplace.
Hence, I suffer less, by having the wise understanding that there is suffering in life and recognising that it is not a personal failing to face suffering, or that I am being punished by some invisible beings out there.
I also want to thank and express my anumodana (gratitude) towards my kalyāṇamitta (spiritual friends) who have inspired me to continue learning and practising the Dhamma.
My spiritual friends reminded me of the impermanence of life’s ups and downs, and that I would suffer if I were stuck in holding on to my perceived identity loss of a Counsellor when I lost my job; but by turning to the Dhamma, I can find some solace and further deepen my understanding of the suffering and impermanence of one life’s status.
The half smile:
As I journey through life and the inevitable challenges in life, by practising the Dhamma, I come to understand the Buddha’s half smile, as realising, and accepting the suchness of life that there is nothing that I need to push away or to cling to and that is okay.
When I am secure in my acceptance of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha in my life, I too smile contentedly like the Buddha, that I will have both wisdom and compassion to meet life challenges resolutely, with calm and ease.
The ultimate independence:
In conclusion, I hope the above personal sharing inspires you to continue to practice the Dhamma to attain the ultimate independence, which is Nibbana (Enlightenment). If we practice the Dhamma, we can find moments of mini-independence and freedom, that will help buffer against our day-to-day living stressors.
Whatever small amount of ease and lightness in our life that we can glean and experience, it will surely continue to build upon our faith and practice in the Dhamma.
I wish you too will have a taste of experiencing liberation and smile like the Buddha’s half smile. Sukhi hontu – May you be well and happy.
Wise Steps:
Explore how you can practice Mindfulness and Compassion in recognising and enduring the minor inconveniences in life.
See if you can adopt the Buddha’s half smile in accepting the inevitable challenges in life.
If you are in a position to support your friends who are in career transition, extend your help. You may refer to this past HOL article by Livia Lee for additional ideas to support those who faced layoffs.
Editor’s note: It is commencement month! For fresh graduates, you’ve crossed yet another milestone with blood, sweat, tears, and joy. Sze Yuan shares his advice.
TLDR: Entering his 5th year of work in the Public Service, Sze Yuan imagines the advice he would give to his younger self as he starts work.
Dear Sze Yuan of 2018,
Good job on completing 4 arduous years of university! As you look back, memories of the winter exchange in Norway, the fun orientation times at Sentosa, the long nights studying in the library, and the silly times spent with friends linger dearly in your heart.
There is longing in your heart for the youthful days gone by – and you are stepping ahead into adulthood with trepidation.
You have done well in your university studies, yet applying the theories in practice seems frightening. You have served actively in the Buddhist scene, but are uncertain if your spiritual ideals are compatible with the “real” adult world.
I want to reassure you that it is ok to feel what you are feeling!
There will be bumps, and periods of darkness too. When things get too unbearable, or when your light needs some refuelling, I hope that the words below offer some encouragement to you.
A day before I start work, there is a rush to get things done to get my 7 hours of rest so that I can do my morning sit and get to work tomorrow. But I think it is worthwhile to spend some time recording my state-of-being now… There is a small part of fear and anxiety… On the other hand, also excited about a new phase of life, about doing new things. Excited to be able to contribute back to society, and through my salary, to support my loved ones. Excited to face the often-talked-about “real world”, and to see how my practice helps to handle these situations. 01-07-2018
1)Relationships Matter
I know that you don’t feel confident socialising, and enjoy your own company more. But I encourage you to step out and to open your heart to others.
Cherish the friends you made through internship, university, orientation programmes. Above all, keep your spiritual friends (kalyanamittas) close.
You will soon find that it is very hard to move things purely through formal channels at work. The nicest emails and requests move along only with the lubricant of warm ties.
Likewise, be ready to lend a hand when others seek your help too. It is not just that this will encourage others to help you next time (which is of course nice)! But you will find that these small acts of giving leave the deepest impression on you.
They will make you feel good about yourself.
In a few years’ time, your work (and world) will drastically change. I won’t spoil it for you – but just know that you will be working from home often.
As much as you dislike small talk in pantries and discussions in big meetings, you will soon realise how important these physical interactions are for your mental well-being. It is a “love-hate” relationship with colleagues after all – inconvenient with; depressing without.
You will see that you are not an island, and still require the familiarity of human touch and care to warm your soul.
Hence, learn to open your heart to others, and to allow the light outside to enter you too. Things are brighter this way.
The system is imperfect. There’s more work to do than any one of us can manage. It is like fitting lego blocks in a space less than they can fit. To fit, one has to be cut and squeezed, so in this system that we work in, we will always have to work out compromises between colleagues. It is not easy and takes a lot of soft skills, and sometimes you offend people… It is an imperfect system – it is the human big-heartedness, forgiveness, and patience that lubricate things. 30-10-2019
2)Things Connect
Things will seem quite hopeless in your first few years at work. You will wonder why you signed up for this, strain against the bonds that the scholarship placed on you, and wonder if anyone is doing any “real” work in this system at all.
I want to reassure you that this is normal. You are right – the system is far from perfect. There are many red tapes, bosses may not be understanding, and work can be utterly boring.
However, keep faith that things (sometimes) connect upwards. Some of the seemingly insignificant tasks will turn out to be the catalyst for larger opportunities at work and for spiritual growth.
You will also realise that the many small tasks you do amalgamate into a larger theme – the details fade, but the spirit in which you carry out the work lingers.
If you learn to do each small thing well, you will feel good about yourself when the larger project is completed.
Remind yourself that how you do things matter as much, if not more, than what you do.
Of course, there are things that just don’t make sense. Sometimes, you have to call a “spade” a “spade”. During these times, keeping a sense of humour can be immensely helpful!
3)“Work-Life Balance”
You will spend much time finding this elusive “work-life balance”. I am sorry to burst your bubble – 5 years in, I am still searching too.
But I am learning things about my(your)self through this search, which is very helpful. Here are some tips:
Start and end each day with meditation.
Focus on one task at a time as far as possible.
View your colleagues as buddies on a group quest – not enemies.
Use toilet breaks to exercise your legs and slot in some simple body stretches (pro tip: use the further toilet for more exercise!).
Have a system to keep track of your work tasks. Gamify your work, and take pride and find joy in tackling each task.
You will end many days feeling unproductive and lousy about yourself. Learn to be kind to yourself (note: 5 years in, I am still working on this too).
End the day by recollecting your wholesome deeds and things to be grateful for. Don’t assume you will wake up the next day.
There will be unavoidable times when you work till late at night or over weekends. Develop a bigger heart and view them as par for the course.
Devote yourself to causes outside of your work – continue serving and developing affinities within the Buddhist community.
To be honest, I’m starting to think that a balance may never be found. Perhaps it is a moving balance? Or should it be work-life “harmony”?
Perhaps work and life should not be distinct entities, and should merge into the present moment? Or maybe we won’t be balanced until Enlightenment?
I will let you know when I find out.
With work, it hasn’t been easy to find motivation, so during these times when I can pop my head out from this whole dreariness, I just thought of recording it down so that this reinforces the wholesome perspective. With time, in years, maybe decades, hopefully I can gain sufficient wisdom to handle my work and mundane responsibilities in the world with grace and elegance. Far from it now, but I am making the effort. 10-10-2020
4)Cultivate Skillful Perspectives
Being in public service, you are cruising along in a large ship. Things are stable, and you can be quite assured that we are heading towards a decent destination.
However, you will soon realise that on this ship, not everyone gets fancy uniforms and jobs. You will get your chance – but most times, you are doing the ignoble tasks like scrubbing the deck floor, rowing the giant paddle, cleaning out the toilet, or singing/dancing for the entertainment of others (this last part, I don’t even mean it metaphorically. You will do it).
You will witness many colleagues jumping ship (pun intended), and you may even feel a tinge of envy towards them for doing what you can’t.
In these times, I want to encourage you to maintain perspective and remind yourself that the summation of these “ignoble” tasks leads to the ship’s overall success.
You may think that this is deceiving yourself. But, remember that of all the stories you narrate at work, the most important story is the one you tell yourself.
To share a story that inspired me (you):
A gentleman walked past a building site to see three men laying bricks. He approached the first and asked, ‘What are you doing?’ Annoyed, the first man answered, ‘What does it look like I’m doing? I’m laying bricks!’ He walked over to the second bricklayer and asked the same question. The second man responded, ‘Oh, I’mmaking a living.’ He asked the third bricklayer the same question, ‘What are you doing?’ The third man looked up, smiled, and said, ‘I’mbuilding a cathedral.’ Source here
So Sze Yuan – choose to build a cathedral.
5)The Spiritual Path
Finally, the fortunate, and sometimes painful thing, is that you will remain deeply devoted to your spiritual path.
Fortunate – because even in the toughest times, your spiritual compass will give you a reason to keep faith and carry on. It will strengthen you to be kind when provoked, patient when frustrated, compassionate in the face of suffering, and joyful in the midst of others’ success.
It will give you meaning, even when the conventional world/circumstances tempt you into thinking otherwise.
But the path is also painful. There will be times when you are confused by the strivings of this world, and be averse to the consumption habits that society normalises. You will think that many endeavours at work contradict your deepest values, and feel confused about the way forward.
During your lowest, you will feel utter meaninglessness in life, and things will get really dark.
These times, keep the faith and continue walking towards the light. Learn to see the wholesomeness in things, instead of picking on the faults.
After all that has been said, you still will not be prepared for what is to come. And this is alright as well, Sze Yuan. Some things we learn through peace; others through storm.
As the saying goes – 世上无难事，只怕有心人 (There are no difficulties in life that are insurmountable to the sincere and committed).
So buckle up, and enjoy the ride!
Best wishes,
Sze Yuan from 2023
Wise Steps:
When in doubt, be kind
Do your best in everything
Seek balance – but do not get attached to it
Cultivate perspectives that feed your joy
Make everything your path, and follow your path with heart
Does applying Buddhist principles of compassion and kindness make you a walking doormat at the workplace? PJ Teh, a former Strategic Planning manager at, EDB, challenges that view and gives us points to ponder under this mini-article series.
TLDR: How often do we rush into making decisions and end up making more mistakes? Using the four noble truths and understanding the mental hindrances might be a useful framework for your next decision at work
Underlying the entire Buddhist practise is this principle: the most effective way to deal with reality, is to understand reality as it actually is(rather than the reality you deny or wish otherwise).
Using the Four Noble Truths as a framework
If you read the Four Noble Truths, it is basically a form of root cause analysis, with the aim of getting as close as possible to the underlying reality:
What is the symptom? Suffering exists
What’s the cause of the symptom? Wanting or craving causes suffering.
What happens when the cause is removed? Suffering ceases aka perfect happiness exists
How do you get there? Use an empirically proven solution (Eightfold Path) that removes the causes of wanting and suffering.
And this four-fold approach can be applied to many problems at the work. Say, you have a problem that your company is not iNNoVatIve (pronounced in as pretentious a way as possible) enough.
Let me illustrate with a made-up example:
What is the symptom? – We have no new products in the past.
What’s the cause of the symptom? – We have no product innovation team. Nobody has time to work on new products. Everyone is overworked.
What happens when the cause is removed? – After introducing a 4-day workweek, we now have a lot of new products.
How do you get there? – Continue with the 4-day workweek.
In practice, steps 2, 3 and 4 will likely be iterative, as you work through and figure out which possible causes are really material or not.
But the example above illustrates that the Four Truths framework can be applied to almost any problem, as a diagnostic framework.
Our tendency to dive in
When we look at issues and matters, we tend to dive into the issue and matter. However, besides the issues and matters, the other half of the equation is how are you looking at the matter, and how is your mind when you’re looking at it?
You can think of it as a causal arrow: your mind <- five senses <- the issue and matter. Looking at our mental state is examining reality from the other end of this causal chain. And if your mind is affected, that affects the accuracy of one’s understanding of the information being transmitted and received.
Again, the Buddha has a set of similes that vividly describe how the mind is when defiled by the Five hindrances. When that happens, you’re not capable of looking at things as they truly are (full sutta here), much like a bowl of water has become unclear and un-still, and cannot accurately reflect a person’s reflection:
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was mixed with a dye such as red lac, turmeric, indigo, or rose madder. Even a person with good eyesight checking their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it….In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in sensual desire … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t spring to mind, let alone those that are not practised…
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was heated by fire, boiling and bubbling. Even a person with good eyesight checking their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it…In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in ill will … Even long-practised hymns don’t spring to mind, let alone those that are not practised…
Suppose there was a bowl of water overgrown with moss and aquatic plants. Even a person with good eyesight checking their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it…In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in dullness and drowsiness… Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t spring to mind, let alone those that are not practised….
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was stirred by the wind, churning, swirling, and rippling. Even a person with good eyesight checking their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it. In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in restlessness and remorse… Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t spring to mind, let alone those that are not practised.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was cloudy, murky, and muddy, hidden in the darkness. Even a person with good eyesight checking their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it…In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in doubt … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t spring to mind, let alone those that are not practised.
Without your mind in the right state, it is very hard to “truly know it or see it“, whatever it may be.
Check before you decide!
So it is important to check your mind for defilements before you decide. If one’s mind isn’t in the right mental state, then it is important to take steps to apply the necessary antidote, and have a clear mind before making any big decisions.
Miss the first article on ‘Choosing your workplace’? Click here to check it out!
Wise Steps:
Know your mind, and be aware of the emotions or defilements that are present. How is your mind now: what defilements are present or absent?
Try to apply the Four Noble Truths’ approach to diagnosing the root causes of tough situations. What is the symptom, the probable cause of the symptom? And what happens when the cause is removed?
Check your mind state before deciding: it will reduce the probability of making bad decisions!
Does applying Buddhist principles of compassion and kindness make you a walking doormat at the workplace? PJ Teh, a former Strategic Planning manager at EDB, challenges that view and gives us points to think about, in this mini-article series.
TLDR: We spend more than a quarter of our adult lives at the workplace. Knowing how to choose your workplace can either build or destroy your character. Choosing the right people, and culture, and asking the right questions is crucial!
Principles in the financial world and the Dhamma
The term Dharma/dhamma is something that brings up the mental image of a Californian long-haired hippy with incense and drugs, spouting free-love, with flowers in their hair.
In reality, the term Dhamma is simply a set of conditionality or principles: this can be seen from how they are described, which are usually sets of conditionality i.e. if A happens, that allows B to happen, etc.
So that is why in my mind, “Applying Buddhist Principles at Work” is the same thing as “Applying the Dhamma at Work”.
Ray Dalio, a famous hedge-fund manager, who wrote a best-selling book “Principles” gives us further insight into the workplace. His book is about the principles he used to grow Bridgewater Associates into one of the largest funds in the world: that is a kind of Dhamma for hedge funds (and decision-making), with many overlaps with Buddhist Dhamma.
Instead of ‘lazily’ applying the Eightfold Path and Four Noble Truths, I’m taking a first-principles approach to the Dhamma at Work, but without necessarily being MECE (mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive). These are decisions and actions that anybody probably needs to act on, at work.
These are my personal views on the matter, so please feel free to look at it differently. 🙂
I should also caveat that these Buddhist principles might not make you rich or conventionally successful. But you will probably sleep well at night, and probably suffer a lot less, and be happier!
The following decisions need to be made by anybody with regard to any workplace.:
Choosing a workplace
How to look at issues and matters, and how to decide
How to treat people at the workplace
How to conduct oneself
This article will cover ‘Choosing a workplace’ with subsequent articles covering the other areas.
Choosing the place where you spend a quarter of your adult work life
A workplace is an environment where your mind will be in, for a substantial amount of your life.
A week has 168 hours: a typical work week takes up anywhere from 42 to 120 of those hours, which is 25% or more of your total time. That’s where your mind will be at.
What happens at work also spills over to the rest of your life, shaping your mental state for your week. Hence, I think choosing a workplace is perhaps the most important decision to make.
So how should we choose a workplace? I have a few factors to consider.
1. Choosing the people
The first factor to decide about a workplace is the people you’re going to be working with. You become the people around you.
This was so important, that Ananda (who was the Buddha’s personal attendant) was rebuked by the Buddha for saying that the good friendship was only half the Holy Life:
When a bhikkhu (monastic) has a good friend, a good companion, and a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path.
The same consideration applies to choosing our colleagues.
Why is it so important to choose your colleagues carefully? This is because of anatta, or non-self: if there truly is a self that was fully in control, then the environment wouldn’t impact any individual.
But precisely because anatta or non-self is true, we humans are influenced easily by the people and environment around us.
Choosing the workplace, especially choosing the people you work with thus helps shape our own minds and conditions.
2. How do I know if the culture is right for me?
Related to this, is whether the culture of the team and workplace you’re joining is a good or bad culture. How do you know if it’s good or bad? And good or bad, with reference to what?
Choose a workplace culture with reference to your state of mind, and your progress on the Eightfold Path.
If you go to a workplace and you end up having a lot of strong desires, that’s probably not good.
Nothing below a five-star hotel
When I was working with a previous employer in finance, an ex-boss said to me “You know, PJ, I can never stay in a hotel less than five stars, and on a plane less than business class.”
I was horrified and asked why. She said, “because I am so used to this, that anything less is really uncomfortable.”
It was suffering for her, basically, because the financial industry had norms that were extremely expensive. And that’s when I realised that the industry was Super Samsara!
That’s when I decided I had to leave because I also noticed that many of my colleagues and peers were not happy, not very healthy, and used their high pay to “buy happiness” outside of work, indulging in all kinds of expensive things.
The layoffs happened
When we were laid off due to the financial crisis, I heard an ex-colleague had cash for only half a month’s worth of rent in her bank account, because she had spent all her income on spa packages, pedicure packages, gym packages, branded clothes, bags, drinks, expensive dinners, etc.
So she was desperate to get another high-paying job as a banker, even though the market was flooded with retrenched bankers.
My own state of mind back then was extremely unhealthy: strong desires, bad-tempered, and lacking sleep (I was working 90-120 hours a week).
Even though it has taken ten years to get back to the base-level salary I earned in the investment bank, I still think it was the right decision to leave (or rather, to get laid off).
The Buddha gave this advice on how to choose a place for a monastic:
Buddha: Take another case of a mendicant who lives close by a jungle thicket. As they do so, their mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements come to an end, and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary. But the necessities of life that a renunciate requires—robes, alms-food, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick—are hard to come by. That mendicant should reflect: ‘…I didn’t go forth from the lay life to homelessness for the sake of a robe, alms-food, lodgings, or medicines and supplies for the sick… they shouldn’t stay there.
This advice isn’t just for monastics but is applicable to anyone who is intent on walking the Path.
What’s perhaps most interesting is the subsequent instruction from the Buddha. When your meditation, mindfulness and practice aren’t good, due to your environment,
That mendicant should leave that jungle thicket that very time of night or day; they shouldn’t stay there.
That’s how important the Buddha placed the effect of a place on one’s mind.
Asking the human mirrors you live with at home
How should you apply this learning, if you don’t really meditate nor keep precepts?
A simple way is to ask the people who live with you: are you becoming more gentle, kinder, and compassionate? Or are you becoming more of a pain in the ass to live with?
That will tell you how your mental cultivation is going. If your workplace is causing you to be more irritable, have strong sensual desires, and crave more material things, then you’re probably in the wrong place.
And if you see that a workplace is full of people with big egos, anger, strong sensory desires and material things, those workplaces are probably the places to avoid.
Wise Steps:
Understand the impact of colleagues on your mind and choose them wisely. Which of your colleagues improve your mind, and which do not?
Check-in with the people you live with if your character has improved or worsened since you joined your firm; this is one of the best indicators of whether you chose the right place. What do they say?
Hey friends, this is Kai Xin, and you’re listening to the Handful of Leaves podcast where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life.
In our highly competitive society, workplace politics and backstabbing can be rampant in some organizations. Some might do anything to climb to the top of the corporate ladder. Even if you may want to be part of the dog-eat-dog world, even if you purely just want to do your job well, inevitably there will be jealous colleagues who see you as a threat and start making things hard for you.
Is there a way to play this game well without losing our virtue and sanity? The answer is yes. In this episode, my co-host, Cheryl, speaks with Datuk Charlie to learn how. Datuk Charlie was the former director and group CEO of numerous listed companies in Malaysia with over 40 years of experience. He also played a pivotal role in founding several Buddhist organisations.
In this interview, Datuk Charlie shares instances in his career when colleagues gang up to bring him down, and how he turned a hostile colleague who sabotaged his work into one of his best friends today.
Datuk Charlie helped us see that we have the power to ease workplace toxicity, and how to find the balance between enduring the toxic workplace and escaping from it.
Cheryl 01:49
Thank you so much for joining us on our Handful Of Leaves episode. Today, we’re excited to talk about a topic that’s high on everybody’s mind. Stress and burnout are something that a lot of people at least in Singapore are facing, and I can’t wait to dig into your knowledge and experiences on the topic. But before that, I was just curious, what made you so inspired to share the Dhamma?
Datuk Charlie Chia 02:14
Well, I was actually more of a ritual Taoist knowing very little about Buddhism, I was introduced to the Buddhist Centre in Malacca. I was from Malacca. And there is this temple called Seck Kia Eenh Temple in Malacca, where the Baba and the Nyonya will meet most of the time for cultural activities. Then, of course, we have the chief Reverend, which is K. Sri Dhammananda, who used to travel to Malacca to deliver talks. And I was sort of very captivated by the logical and scientific explanations of the Buddhist teachings. And being a science student, myself, I was baffled, somehow the Buddhist teachings have covered all the aspects from A to Z, without any doubts over the authenticity and the workings of science. So I was keen, I started learning, reading, and attending whatever retreat and talks that I can attend, and it continued to make sense.
The teachings were practical, without dogma or superstitions, and yet, they contributed toward self-development. Because of that, I felt that it was good to help to spread the Dhamma because there was this slogan at that time that said “Know Dhamma, and make Dhamma known.” And so we became missioners from then onwards.
Cheryl 03:34
Lovely. So you have known Dhamma, even before you started your career, how many years have you been in the workforce?
Datuk Charlie Chia 03:42
Well, I have been in the workforce for almost 40 years. I am already 67 this year. And I’ve already retired for about three to four years, although currently, I’m still practising as a legal professional in my law firm.
Cheryl 03:56
Was there any specific teaching that helped you view your career or guide you in your career?
Datuk Charlie Chia 04:06
Well, I think the Buddha’s teachings have actually introduced quite a good set of values and ethics. Whenever we are in the corporate sector, we must be seen to be ethical, and we must be seen, be honest, and creditworthy, because at the end of the day, in business, we are talking about credit worthiness, that if people trust you, and people believe in you, then you can sell better your ideas can also be used and introduced.
So somehow or other because of our precepts, we tend to be more honest to ourselves and honest to others. Secondly, is that I think the Noble Eightfold Path has also provided us with self-discipline, to train ourselves in the right thinking and moving in the right direction.
Let me give a simple example. When we talk about right action- if you’re going to do some actions, it must benefit both yourself and others. Because there are some actions that benefit others but don’t benefit yourself, that is not right. Then any actions that benefit yourself and don’t benefit others also are not right. Of course, any action that doesn’t benefit yourself and others are one, you have to keep away from it. So, all the actions that we do, must be seen in such a way that will be a win-win situation, or both parties must benefit as a result. So when you have that kind of ethics and maxim, then each decision and each action is not just to benefit yourself, but also to benefit everybody else, especially your clients, your associates, and those people who work very closely with you. At the same time, it’s also applicable to boss and subordinates relationship.
In a working relationship in companies and corporates, the staff must believe in their leaders. And they must actually be inspired by the leaders and they will actually more of go to lengths in order to achieve the targets and objectives. So if you are a leader who can say basically, you all don’t work for me, but you work with me, and thus you become an inspiration, and that you are willing to go to the ground, in order to bear all the difficulties and problems and come up with solutions together. And at the end of the day, when there are results, you share the glamour of it, you share the rewards of it and acknowledge that it is everybody’s contributions, rather than you yourself take all the honour and praise. So once the staff or the subordinate sees that you are in that direction, they believe in you, and they follow you.
Throughout my corporate life, I have had staff who follow me from company to company, they always believed that they have far to go if they were to be with a leader of their choice.
Cheryl 06:54
Are you able to maybe share with us a specific example of how you managed to bring a win-win kind of scenario?
Datuk Charlie Chia 07:02
You see, I was in the property development industry for many, many years. Although I started as a quantity surveyor, eventually, I ventured into real estate and properties, and then finally, of course, I ended up in a legal profession. So when I wanted to sell a product, especially a house or an apartment, where we design the apartment, we don’t design according to our tastes, our rates. Sometimes, you know, it may be suitable for you, but may not be suitable for others.
So at the end of the day, you should actually design with them in your mind. And that this will benefit them, will give them more advantages in their movements. And this will then give them that luxury of life. Then when that happens, you introduce the product to them and get them inspired and enthusiastic and excited. Subsequently, once they actually bought the property, you don’t leave them hanging, you must continue to provide the services, customer service, and also after sales, which is also a very important factor. At the end of the day, you must be there to make sure that they enjoy the process from the beginning right up to the end.
A lot of us after we sell our products, at the end of the day is you are left to fend for yourself, which is actually not creditworthy. And if you have a good purchaser or good customer, they are your customer for life, and not only their customer for life, they are also your introducer for life. So you will get referrals and business over and over again. Isn’t that a better option? So always with that in mind that it is a win-win. In every action you do, you find that your business will grow.
Cheryl 08:43
I think this is a very great example of thinking about the long term rather than short-term conveniences. From your experiences, have you ever been in a toxic workplace before?
Datuk Charlie Chia 08:55
Many times I have, because usually when I joined a new company, I’ve been sort of like parachuted into a new company, and that’s the time when you face a lot of flak. The reason is that there were people from the rank and file ready to fill your position, but somehow the management or the board decides to actually pull someone from outside and then eventually parachute in. And thus then you start to run as a leader, instead of coming from the rank and file, then you will get sabotaged, you will get a lot of staff who might not be happy. At the end of the day, they will try all sorts of ways in order to get you out. But the most important thing is that you have to win your friends. I have always succeeded in doing that.
I remember when I was in the first property company when I started to join this first property company after construction company and I was placed at the general manager level. And there was this particular finance manager who was actually aiming for that post. So when I came in, he was very antagonistic. He sabotaged every proposal I make, he sort of put in a lot of cold water. And I had a tough time. And I decided that you know, the Buddha says that when you are in this type of position, you mustn’t overcome it with a lot of hatefulness and anger. The Dhammapada says hatred is not overcome by hatred, by love alone is hatred ceased. So I decided to put it to a test. I say, Okay, I’m going to be nice to him, I’m going to be pleasant to him, I’m going to love him.
At the same time every morning when I meet him along the corridors or at the doors, I will then greet him, “Good Morning.” Of course, no answer, initially, he will just refuse to acknowledge me, and he’ll walk past you as if you are a ghost. And I keep on trying because I believe in the Buddha’s teaching, I say it will work one day. Sure enough, after a number of months, then when I say good morning, I can hear a grunt. And the grunt was, “hmph.” I thought that was good that there was a response. Let me try further and better. And sure enough, I kept on going. “Good morning, how are you? I hope your day will be good.” And then eventually, one fine day, the response came back and he says, “Good morning.” Well, that was great, a sort of improvement and breakthrough, the Cold War is over.
And then subsequently, as the conversation now started properly, from good morning, and how are you, and he says, “Yeah, I’m fine.” And then eventually, one fine morning, I say, “Would you like to join me for breakfast?” and he says, okay, then he started to join me for breakfast. And then breakfast turned to lunch, and lunch turned into dinners when we work late. We either buy ourselves our packed dinners, or we go out for dinners. Wow, and that was actually the breakthrough that we have. And true enough, we became such good friends, that even until today, (I remember that was back in 1991), this person is now one of my best friends. He will call me, to check in on me. And eventually, I’m doing his legal work now. All his legal is being done by me. From a very toxic environment, it has actually flourished, and we work together very much.
There was another one more situation when I was again, sort of talent hunted, and then eventually was placed as Chie Operations Officer. Somehow I was supposed to work with this group of people who were actually on the way out because the new management didn’t like this group of people. When I came in, they were all out trying to also get me out. So a toxic situation again, and I then decided that I do the same thing. And eventually, you will find that these two guys, who were one of the senior COO and one of the senior CFO, and are now great friends, and we meet every once in a while for our dinners. So there can be a lot of situations when the Buddhist teachings, especially the Dhammapada if you read the Dhammapada very well, you’ll find that it has so many values and gems, that when you apply it, it solves a lot of our working problems.
Cheryl 13:23
It is very challenging the situations that you shared, and the people are just hostile, the people that just really dislike you from the start. And when you say you apply loving kindness, you try to be friendly and smile at the person, was there any point where you felt so tired and you wanted to just give up?
Datuk Charlie Chia 13:42
There is another maxim in the Buddha’s teachings: have patience, tolerance, and understanding. These are actually the three great virtues it hangs in my room, patience, tolerance, and understanding, and actually have helped to solve a lot of issues like this. Have patience, because when there is no patience, we tend to leave things halfway and we give up, we are not tolerant, of the difficulties that we faced. And then subsequently, of course, when you have the right understanding of the Buddha’s teaching, that by the power of all the metta that you have, somehow or rather it will happen your way.
I’ll give a simple example. They always say believe in the power of karma. There are many people who have done a lot of good deeds in their life, but they have not been bestowed with all the good results and good fortunes, then, some of them will just utter and to say, I’ve done so many good things in my life, yet I never enjoy any of these fruits. But the idea is that the conditions are not conducive. You see, karma is like a seed of potential. When you plant a seed, the soil must be good, the air must be good. The nutrients must be good, the shade must be good. The oxygen must be there. But if you don’t have all these nutrients and conditions which are conducive to the arising of the seed, it will never germinate, you will remain a seed hibernating all the while.
We may have done a lot of good deeds in our life, and sowed a lot of good seeds, but as long as our mind is not positive, our mind is not at peace, and our mind is not calm and happy. If we are desperate, and we keep on grumbling, and say, “You see, I’ve not been able to get results,” then, of course, results won’t come your way. Positiveness will attract positive events. So we always say do good, get good, do bad, you get bad. But at the same time, I think we must believe in the power of karma, because karma is actually a natural law, and all the workings of nature, especially when you contribute things, when you do a lot of good things, when you do a lot of efforts towards a direction, believe in the natural laws, that eventually nature will then take its form, and it will bestow upon us.
Cheryl 16:01
I really love what you share because when we are put into hostile situations it is something that we cannot control. But when you look into practising patience, practising kindness and understanding these are things within our power, and we are able to then control, and at least plant the seeds of goodness, and with right understanding, as you say, you know, when the conditions are ripe, the fruits are born on its own. At the same time, I also hear from a lot of my friends who are in toxic work environments, that it takes a toll on their mental health. So how do we balance you know, the patience, let’s say, always being kind, and always being nice to other people, but at the same time, it eats us from the inside. So how do we balance that?
Datuk Charlie Chia 16:43
Put it this way, the moment that matters the most is actually the present, or the now. What happened in the past you can’t control. And what is going to happen in the future is beyond your means at the moment. But what matters most is, what are you doing about it now? Because what you do now justify your past, and also prepares you for your future. Do something about it. If you believe that you want to enjoy good results, ask yourself, “What can I do now?” And of course, at this present moment, because you expect good results you expect, say for example, like a student, you want to score 10 distinctions, thinking aloud and say, I hope to score 10 distinctions and have a lot of worries about the future and says, Do you think I can get it or not? And whether I will be able to achieve it. You will never achieve it.
But what are you doing about it now is to actually put your effort and your energies into trying to work it out at this present moment which matters most. Because of what you contribute today, you will bear its fruits in the future. What you do today and contribute today, owes its origin to your previous contributions. That means you must have actually built it up from your past. And then you “Jia you” (go for it) in this present moment, and it will bear your results in the future. Living in the present moment is actually a very strong philosophy.
In fact, Eckhart Tolle who is actually a German, who thought about this and wrote in a book called The Power of Now, is actually very, very synchronised with our Buddhist teachings, in the sense that the Buddha says live in the present, do not worry about your past, and do not speculate about your future for it’s yet to come. What you do now will be the most important. So have you put in your best effort? Have you tried your best? Have you given all your energy to trying to make it work? If you have done something at this moment, don’t worry. Eventually, it will happen. The common maxim is: don’t worry, be happy. It is important to realise this, that living in the present moment, leaving here and now is where your happiness is. If you are happy today, your conditions are right. I believe you all have heard or met with venerable Thich Nhat Hanh, he actually believes very strongly in the present moment, his teachings are actually going around this main point where here and now is the wonderful moment. If you can live this wonderful moment, well, you will live your future well, too. And you will also appreciate your past.
Cheryl 19:23
How do we draw the line between saying, Okay, this is unacceptable, I should walk away and leave and find a better environment for myself? So is it an act of cowardice? Or is it an act of courage to walk away from a toxic environment?
Datuk Charlie Chia 19:41
Actually, it’s an act of wisdom. The reason is because by grasping by holding, it’s actually not going to give you a lot of relief. But if you’re able to let it go, like in Mandarin, we say, “fang kai放开” and “fang xia放下,” and if you’re able to slowly let it go, you maintain a good peace of mind. And when the mind is focused and peaceful, that is where you make the right decisions. We get agitated, we get angry and frustrated, and we get disturbed, it is because we cannot let go of an object which is disturbing us, and cannot move forward from there. So, it is good that we say, “Okay, let me just put down all these difficulties, and see how I can work within this capacity of the mine.”
Now, remember, all of us are not built to be Superman, we have our limited capacity. And because we don’t realise that limited capability, we always aim for the sky. Sometimes, you can ask someone to really study hard, but the best that one could put in is only five distinctions, or five A’s, and he cannot achieve the 10 A’s, does he get very unhappy over it? Water in the vase is half empty, or half full depending on how you perceive whether it is negative, or whether it’s positive. Why do you want to dwell on the negative when you can be on the positive?
A positive mind is always a good condition to actually develop and germinate all your good seeds which are sown in your past your efforts that you have contributed in the past, they actually bear fruit and surface and arise to take over and give you what you expect. Expectations always give us a lot of failures. Iif you expect high, you fall very high, or fall very deep. So it is important to manage our expectations by being able to renounce, to let go of the ability to manage that expectation, so then we won’t be so unhappy as a result. So if your mind is not unhappy, if your mind is not in desperation, you will always have a good mind, a positive mind, happy mind, and we believe you will lead yourself to better environments. And that’s what we have been training ourselves.
The act of renunciation, the act of actually giving, letting go is actually wisdom by itself. People look at it as a weakness. Sometimes when we retreat, they treat it as a weakness, but the retreat could be a strength for you to actually recuperate, to come forward stronger. So don’t look at all the negativities as weakness. It could be just a retreat for the surge forward later.
Cheryl 19:23
I love how you tie retreating into an act of wisdom. And I would add, an act of courage as well. And I think this ties in very nicely into our next theme, especially when you were mentioning about how we should be very wise in terms of how we manage our expectations. So in the context of where we are today in 2022, COVID is still not over although the world is slowly coming back to normalcy. There’s so much going on this the economic pressures from the war, the inflation and there are just so many things that can make a person feel very destabilised and very, very stressed. So, what are some action steps or methods that one can take to manage their expectations to attenuate their stressors in life?
Datuk Charlie Chia 25:03
Well, the path to enlightenment is to understand three characteristics of phenomena. And that is anicca, anatta and dukkha. These are three characteristics that governs all phenomena. Impermanence, change, and there is no permanent entity or permanent phenomena, which does not change at all. Never happened. And if you’re attached to something where you don’t want to change, but it change, then you are going to be unsatisfied and disappointed (Dukkha). And actually enlightenment is, when you begin to see all phenomena in these three characteristics, your mind is at peace, your mind is free from suffering. So, this is the art of managing changes. COVID, pandemic, wars and changes in the environment that we are living in. These are part and parcel of the impermanent sea of phenomena. Accept it. As long as you cannot accept change, that is where the tension is, that’s where the stress is. That’s just where you get disappointed all the time. But if you can accept change as part and parcel of nature, and you manage it, you manage it in the sense that you you are able to then adjust yourself. Understanding why it change and then move together with it and synchronise with it or living in harmony with it, you will be free from all the repercussions.
Now, pandemic or COVID-19 actually gives us a lot of lesson. We learn to respect nature. Because we have tampered with nature, we have disturbed the forces of nature. And the Buddha actually, for 45, long, many years of ministry has taught us about these laws of nature, our natural laws. And he says that, don’t go against the law of nature. The moment you tamper and disturb laws of nature, be prepared for the consequences, and the punishment of nature. I think in other religions also taught the same thing, go and live in harmony with the laws of God, and you’ll be free from the punishment of God.
When we understand the laws of nature, especially in the Buddhist teaching, is called the Five Niyamas, or the five cosmic laws. Therefore, when a pandemic happens, this is part of the natural laws, which adjusts itself when it is disturbed by our human intervention, our human habits, and destruction, then the forces of nature will then rearrange, and then try to take effect upon us. You get more tsunamis, tension, the pandemic, or the viruses going haywire. Respect nature now. From now onwards, try to live in harmony with it, don’t destroy nature, take care of nature, eat naturally, exercise naturally. Do you know that now, we are doing a lot of unnatural things. Even when we have to talk to each other, we also use a finger, and then in front of the other person, you are still texting, instead of talking and communicating. So there are many unnatural things that we do, we have to actually return back to nature. And that’s what the Buddha’s teaching is, we have to return to the balance state of nature, and that is called Nirvana, or nibbana. Right? So, understand nature by virtue of these lessons that we learned through the pandemic, through the wars that is happening. And then we say, okay, if we don’t want these things to happen, we ourselves have to take the lead in observing the laws of nature, and try to pacify ourselves in this direction. And that is where we, as one person, it comes two person, to person becomes many, many becomes millions, millions becomes the world. And if we can change the world by what we do inside, we change the whole world outside. Because you can never change the world from outside, you have to change the world from inside.
The path to enlightenment is not looking at outside is looking inside. And understanding the nature of our physical form, Mind and Matter, and understanding anicca, anatta and dukkha within, then you will make yourself understand the rest. And if you are happy yourself, you will see the whole world as a happy world. If you’re unhappy yourself, because you see everything is negative, everything is unhappy. So be happy, be positive, and be at peace.
Cheryl 28:12
Just now you mentioned the five Niyamas. Could you maybe share a little bit more for our listeners?
Datuk Charlie Chia 28:17
The five niyamas talks about the five natural orders. First order is the germinal order, which is called the Bija Niyama. And the germinal order says that if you plant a mango seed, you get a mango tree. You plant a durian seed, you get a durian tree, you cannot plant a mango seed and expect a durian to come out. Because this doesn’t follow the laws of nature. But of course, through human ingenuity, you can tamper with you, you can actually create a mango that smells different. But you are tampering. That’s why you have genetic modification, you have cloning and you have all the reproduction processes that you tamper with it. The moment you do that, be careful of the repercussions. And the consequences.
Utu Niyama talks about cycles and seasons. That you have the seasons that occurs round and round every time. You get the moon circulating around the Earth every 28 days. You get the earth going around the sun every 365 days. And you’ll get what we call the seasons that comes with winter, then you have spring, summer, and autumn and then goes back to winter and then it goes round and round. The whole universe runs in cycles.
Third is the law of action and reaction, which is karma. It’s a natural law, you give an action, a force of action there will be an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, if you sow good seeds, you will reap good fruit. You sow bad seeds you reap bad fruit. This is natural law.
The fourth one is the law of Citta Niyama, which is the law of the behaviour of the mind. Psychology students like you or graduates would know about how the mind works and in Buddhist teaching, we are basically learning how the mind works and how to control it, how to cultivate it, and how to improve on it.
Last, it’s Dhamma Niyama, is a miracle. When we talk about miracles, it happens when the conditions are conducive and right. These things will happen. It is a natural event. That’s why the Buddha never believe in the supernatural. Anything that miraculously happens, he says is a natural event because the conditions are now right. That’s why it happens. All these are what we call the Panca Niyamas, which is the five cosmic orders that governs the whole energy of the universe.
Cheryl 28:27
Thank you so much for sharing. And I think it links back to what we talked about at the start as well, where you know, when you’re putting in good seeds, making sure that you have the patience and understanding to wait for it to ripen as it should.
Datuk Charlie Chia 30:50
See, that’s why I have a very, very cool favourite topic. I call it karmic management.
Cheryl 30:54
Wow. Karmic management!
Datuk Charlie Chia 30:57
You actually can manage your karma, because your seeds of karma is waiting for the right conditions. So are you providing the right conditions? Are you keeping your mind happy, positive, calm, and peaceful, these are conditions for your good karma. But if you are desperate, angry, frustrated, or fearful, these are conditions for your back karmic seeds. And when they arise, it creates more desperation, it creates more anger, then the conditions become better for some more bad seeds to arise. You can manage because in the Buddha’s teaching, we say, destiny is in your hands, you can manage it.
Cheryl 31:34
I love that. We talk always about time management, now we need to talk about karmic management as well. All right, so I think you know, we will go on to just one last question here. For all the busy young people with so much going on, you know, limited time limited energy, and, more importantly, limited mental space as well. So, how can we practically prioritise our well-being? Is there any, you know actionable steps that our listeners can take here?
Datuk Charlie Chia 25:03
Well, the Buddha has certain occasions in the sutras mentioned that we should always prioritise by doing one step at a time. In other words, there may be many chores, they may be in any assignments, find out which one is more important. Focus your mind and do it. Don’t get all over the place. Focus the mind, concentrate, solve this event first. And then eventually, then you move to the next, and you’ll find that everything will come into place. The reason why we are not able to complete our assignments is when we start to panic, when we start to become confused, and when we start to be desperate. But when your mind is very alert, very calm, and peaceful, you tend to make right decisions.
Now, we always say that when you negotiate with the Japanese, the Japanese will always retreat to a room first, they will ask for a few moments, they will retreat a room, and they will sit there and they will then sort of go into mindfulness, they will calm down their mind. And when their mind is calm and peaceful, they will walking into the negotiation room, they will become good negotiators because they are able to actually see the steps one by one, and not muddled up and able to make the right decisions at the right moments. But if you go in, and when you are caught with some critical moments, then you panic, then your decisions are going to haywire. So a lot of times, we have to watch out for the capacity of our mind, take one step at a time, and be able to do your best.
When you have that opportunity, focus, do your best and if it can’t give you the capacity and the results, so be it. Manage your expectations. If your expectations is too high, you will tend to not be able to touch it. But aim for the expectations in their hierarchy or in their tiers. Take care of the bottom ones. It is like going to exam hall, tackling the easy question first. ln a list of questions, where some are tough, some are easy, go for the easy questions. And then when you have more time, and now you go to your difficult question. A lot of people went into the difficult questions, then they couldn’t solve it. They panic and they blacked out and even the easy questions also can’t be answered. So which is a better technique?
Kai Xin 34:42
And that’s a wrap for this episode. I really liked how practical This interview was, and that it’s not so much about going on either end of the spectrum, but it’s to know our capacity. When can we be a little bit more patient and practice loving kindness towards colleagues that might not be so kind towards us? And when should we just leave because it’s no longer beneficial to our mental well-being? I also really appreciate how Datuk Charlie mentioned about karma, that if we diligently plant the seeds and sow the right conditions, then it’s just a matter of time that the seats would germinate, that we will see the fruits of our good deeds. At the end of the day, we have the power to choose and I hope all of you listening will choose the path of kindness, the path of compassion when it comes to a really difficult situation at work. If you’ve benefited from this episode, do share it with a friend and leave us a five-star review because it really helps us with the algorithm to reach more people. Till the next episode, may you stay happy and wise!
