A 3,000-year-old Dhamma talk, now showing in IMAX

A 3,000-year-old Dhamma talk, now showing in IMAX

TLDR: Reflections on craving, virtue, and coming home… from someone who watches maybe two movies a year.

I rarely watch movies. Maybe two a year, if a friend drags me. So when I grabbed the ‘normal’ non-IMAX for Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey, it was a genuine treat. I expected three hours of spectacle. What I did not expect was to walk out feeling like I had just attended a Dhamma talk.

Homer never met the Buddha. Homer’s poem, Odyssey, predates the Buddha by centuries. And yet a story about a man trying to get home kept pointing, again and again, at the same truths the suttas point at. Perhaps that is what happens when a story survives 3,000 years: only the parts that are true about the human condition make it through.

Don’t worry, I will keep this spoiler-light for a plot that is 3,000 years old (a bit of old news). 

Here is what I saw as parallels between the Dhamma & Homer’s poem.

The sirens, and the river no one crosses

A quick primer for those who did not grow up with Greek myths. In the old lore, the Sirens are creatures who sit among the rocks and sing to passing sailors. The song is so irresistible that men steer their ships straight into the rocks to get closer to it. No one who hears it survives. The sirens do not attack anyone. They simply sing, and the sailors destroy themselves by drowning.

Let that sink in. The danger was never the sirens but rather the wanting.

And what do they sing about? Not treasure. As I understood from the film, the Sirens sing to you about all the things you wanted to be, and all the things you wish you had never wished for. 

“That what you most want is what you most cannot have. And that what you most cannot have… is what you already had, and lost.” Odysseus

I sat there in the dark feeling thoroughly blown away.

Because that is taṇhā (craving): the thirst that runs beneath everything we chase. The Dhammapada puts it plainly: “There is no river like craving” (Dhp 251). Rivers at least reach the sea. Craving reaches nothing. It just keeps flowing, from the thing we want, to the next thing, to grief over the thing we lost.

Reflecting deeper on this part of the movie, Sirens are not out there on some rock. They sing every time I open my phone, every time I replay an old memory of who I used to be. The song is always the same song of transient praise that makes us feel pleased for the moment, but it never lasts. And just like in the lore, no one is steering our ship into the rocks except us.

Tie yourself to the mast

A 3,000-year-old Dhamma talk, now showing in IMAX

Here is what struck me most about Odysseus. He does not believe he can out-willpower the song. He knows that in the moment of temptation, he will fail. So he prepares before the moment: he has himself bound to the mast.

That, to me, is sīla (virtue, which includes keeping the moral precepts and a wholesome mind). We do not keep precepts because we are strong. We keep them because we know exactly how weak we are when craving strikes. The ropes are not a punishment. The ropes are not punishment. Tying them is what you do once you know that about yourself.

A climber’s rope is a restriction too. It stops you going where gravity wants to take you. But no climber resents it, because the rope is what lets them get up on the rock in the first place. Without it you stay on the ground, or you climb so carefully you never find out what you can do.

Sīla works on me the same way. The precepts let me go near the things that used to wreck me: desire, anger, other people. And other people get the safety too. When I do not lie or take or harm, they do not have to brace for me.

And the mast itself? For me, the mast is kalyāṇamitta (spiritual friendship): the wise friends and teachers we bind ourselves to. The Buddha went as far as telling Ānanda that admirable friendship is not half of the holy life but the whole of it (SN 45.2, Upaḍḍha Sutta).

I have felt those ropes hold. Ajahn Anan, one of my wise teachers, in Q&A sessions, has a way of pointing out your flaws so gently and so precisely that you cannot wriggle away from them. 

And Ajahn Sumedho once reminded me not to be so willful in the practice… to smile more, to be gentle with myself. To build the path not with strictness but with softness held in khantī (patient endurance), which the Buddha called the highest austerity (Dhp 184).

I used to think discipline meant tightening my grip. Now I think it means choosing a good mast, and letting the ropes do their work.

Polished armour, soft body

A 3,000-year-old Dhamma talk, now showing in IMAX

Then there is Agamemnon. In his armour he looks magnificent. (Some viewers joked he looks like Batman, and honestly, fair.) He won the war. He wears victory like a second skin.

But remember what the lore says his victory cost. To win the gods’ favour for the war, Agamemnon sacrificed his own daughter. He traded his child for glory. And after surviving ten years of battle, the great king was not felled by any enemy spear. He died in his own bedroom, at home, where no armour could help him.

Look closer at that armour; it is polished. Gleaming. It has clearly not seen battle in a long time. It represents a king that does not fight his own wars. And underneath all that bronze is the same soft, ageing, vulnerable body every one of us carries.

Two reflections hit me at once here.

The first is anatta (not-self). We build a solid-looking self out of victories, titles and reputation, and it is brittle precisely because it looks so solid. We build a strong self-image (just like Agamemnon’s armour) and go out and present it to the world. The world is suitably impressed, cowed, and responds in fear or praise to that image; but the inner work remains undone. When the self-image is shed, we are laid low by our kamma, past misdeeds and hindrances.

The shinier the armour, the more we forget the body inside it. Agamemnon armoured everything except the one place life actually reached him.

The second is more uncomfortable, because it is about people like me. Polished, unused armour is also what Dhamma knowledge looks like when we collect it but never apply it. The Dhammapada compares someone who recites many teachings but does not practise them to a cowherd counting other people’s cattle (Dhp 19). I have shelves of Dhamma books. Some of them are… very well polished.

Armour only protects you if it gets used and not kept for ceremonies. The same is true of the teachings.

Athena, the voice that will not let you forget

A 3,000-year-old Dhamma talk, now showing in IMAX

In Greek lore, Athena is the goddess of wisdom, and Odysseus has always been her favourite. In the film, she is less a rescuer and more a conscience. She appears at the moments when Odysseus is closest to losing himself: when pride swells, when he drifts from the man he is supposed to be, when the cost of his choices lands on the people around him.

She does not fight his battles for him. She reminds him of who he is, holds his failures up to him without flinching, and points him back towards home.

Watching this, I kept thinking of hiri (moral shame) and ottappa (fear of wrongdoing). The Buddha called these two qualities the guardians of the world (AN 2.9), because without them, he said, humanity would fall into chaos.

We tend to hear “shame” as something toxic. But hiri is not self-hatred. It is the small and quiet inner voice that says this is beneath you, the way a goddess might say it: with dignity, expecting better of you. Ottappa is its partner, the wise wariness about consequences. Together they are not there to crush us. They are there to guide us back, every single time we drift. Athena never abandons Odysseus, no matter how far he strays. Neither do these guardians abandon us.

The guardians of the world do not scream or shout. They whisper, and then they wait for you to turn around. Or in Zendaya’s (actress who plays Athena) case, she just sulks.

The bow only you can string

You probably know the fable’s most famous test, so this gives nothing away: there is a great bow, and suitor after suitor tries to bend it to string it. None of them can. It answers to one person alone. Odysseus loses everything (wealth, fame, people, time) except this quality of his, a skill & a defining practice of his, that he returns to and honour. 

It reminds me that one is heir to one’s kamma, owns it and is borne of it. Another person (the various suitors) cannot take your place and bear it for you, for it is “yours” alone.

I keep returning to that image as a question for the practice. The sutta this website is named after reminds us that the Buddha taught only a handful of leaves out of an entire forest (SN 56.31): a small set of essentials, because that is all we truly need. But even within that handful, each of us seems to have one leaf that fits our hand differently than anyone else’s. For one person it is mettā (loving-kindness) that comes naturally. For another, khanti (patient endurance). For another, cāga (generosity) that flows without effort.

I rarely watch movies. I am glad I watched this one, because it sent me home… in more ways than one… with a single question I now pass to you:

What is the one wholesome quality in your practice that you are familiar with, return to naturally, and perhaps you, and only you, can bring it out to the fullest extent for yourself?

Search for peace – Way back to the Dhamma

Search for peace – Way back to the Dhamma

TL;DR: In a time of deep struggle, Georgia explored an Abrahamic monotheistic faith and found comfort in its love and community but struggled with its reliance on faith over reason. Returning to Buddhism, she discovered a path of clarity and calm through mindfulness and right understanding, continuing her search for peace through wisdom.

Abrahamic Faith  and its Draw

Search for peace - Way back to the Dhamma

“So bless the Lord, O my soul, O my soul; Worship His Holy name. Sing like never before, O my soul; I’ll worship your Holy name.”

The sweet melody filled the house of worship as many around me (myself included) prayed, cried, knelt, and sang.

It was a really hard time. Many things in my life seemed to be falling apart.

I had barely slept or had a casual human conversation in over two months. On top of the heavy workload and expectations at work, I was filled with worry, anger, and sadness.

There was no escape. The same issues kept arising with no solution, with no control.

My mind kept looping through analysis and self-interrogation, trying to reason my way out of suffering. But with emotions tangled in logic, the problem-solving dulled into exhaustion.

My concerned friend, who is a huge fan of the Big Man Upstairs, brought me to his community of faith. The music gripped my tired soul.

Imagining there was a God, I felt a brief moment of solace as I laid my burdens down in His embrace.

For a moment, my heart was full.

A quick analysis revealed what I had been missing: faith, love, and connection. My curiosity about this Abrahamic faith deepened.

My Background — First-Principled Thinking and Building My Worldview

My family and childhood placed great emphasis on first-principled thinking: to break down problems to their basic truths and reason up from there.

We were taught to question, defend, and discuss our ideas.

One of the harder parts of growing up with so many questions was the frequent confusion.

I noticed that many people lived on autopilot: their thoughts, emotional responses, and behaviours seemed pre-programmed.

While I was fortunate in many ways, I realised many of my default thoughts and reactions were unwise. Figuring them out alone was tough.

After all, if one were to question whether one way of life compared to another made more sense, I think it would be difficult to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. Thus, it seemed easier to learn from those wiser than myself.

I’ve always been envious of peers endowed with wise mentors to guide them and to help them build sound emotional and behavioural frameworks.

I tried to seek mentors out whenever I could, determined to observe them. This desire for wisdom makes up a huge part of my reason for pursuing the Abrahamic religion as well.

My challenges with the Abrahamic faith

Search for peace - Way back to the Dhamma

The Abrahamic faith is a beautiful religion. I met many lovely people who guided me patiently, invited me into their chapters, and taught me about the religion’s holy writings.

For all the joy, love, and community that came with the religion, I encountered various challenges in accepting the faith in its totality:

  1. Blind faith in its almighty figure: I found it hard to build my worldview entirely on a being, who, to me, might not exist.
  2. Interpretation and subjectivity: Questions on how to be a good person and do right by others plagued me. I realised that a lot of the religion’s teachings relied on human interpretation of theistic intentions through the holy book. The morality pronounced by the faith seemed to be built on shaky logical grounds.

A gentle sadness arose when I reached this impasse.

I couldn’t find anyone who could explain it in a way that made logical sense to me.

Though this Abrahamic faith did not fully satisfy my search for peace, I learned something valuable — that I longed for faith, love, and connection.

Armed with this insight, I turned back to the first religion I had known: Buddhism.

My Affinity and Challenges with Buddhism

Buddhism has always resonated with me for its thoughtfulness and logical structure.

I studied in a Buddhist elementary school and understood the first three Noble Truths. The fourth, however, always felt elusive.

I had tried previously to understand the fourth Noble Truths: travelling to Thailand to speak to monks there, or speaking to Buddhist friends, all of whom recommended hard to read books (based on early Buddhist texts).

None of them had brought me peace.

Moreover, my understanding of the underlying notion in Buddhism is to detach from everything.

For someone who built their life philosophy and belief system around existentialism and zest for life, detachment seemed like a huge price to pay.

Way Back into Buddhism — Retreats and Insights

Despite that, I was determined (or desperate) to try out the Buddha’s teachings again. I realised three mistakes I made in my initial attempt:

  1. Reading books that were way above my level of understanding
  2. Not joining a community that I resonated with
  3. Not seeking out practitioners with a deep enough understanding of the Dhamma to address my concerns.

The experience that stood out most in my second attempt was a meditation retreat. The teachers explained the Dhamma simply, connecting the different parts of the theory well.

I came to understand that Buddhism was not simply about detachment. It also teaches us to replace unwholesome mental states with wholesome ones.

Detachment was the tool to cease unwholesome mental states.

Faith, love and connection (all positive mental states) are possible to build in Buddhism while maintaining zest for life.

That understanding brought me joy and relief, as the mental dissonance faded away. 

As I meditated, a non-linguistic insight arose: I felt animalistic, and I was trapped by my conditioning, reacting automatically to pleasure and pain.

Gradually, as my attention shifted, the emotions subsided, and the impermanence of afflictions became clear.

With the insights, I felt free with a subtle happiness. This liberating mental state is likely the main solution to my problems.

My Current Status with Buddhism

With a couple of months passing by, even a basic understanding of Buddhism has helped me in the following ways:

  1. Lowering unnecessary stimuli, which creates mental space for calm.
  2. Labelling unwholesome or useless thoughts, which makes it easier to let them go.
  3. Examining which mental narratives are useful in managing my emotions and understanding their causes

I’m still building my faith and understanding towards Buddhists. Undoubtedly, I still have many questions. The main one being: Buddhism teaches about conditions and training of the mind.

When conditions are not advantageous, how well can I detach?

I have struggled with this question sometimes when life is challenging, and I am still experimenting with the techniques and skillful narratives. Nevertheless, I look to the Buddhist path ahead with hope, joy, and gratitude.

Thanks for reading. Sukhi hontu (May you be well and happy)!

Disclaimer: This is just my personal journey through these two religions. I might have misunderstood certain concepts or missed key teachings, but I’m learning 🙂


Wise Steps:

  • Find a Community, Not Just a Concept. Don’t just read in isolation. Actively seek out a community of practitioners who can guide you, answer your questions, and provide a supportive environment to deepen your understanding.
  • Start with the Body. Mindfulness all starts from focusing and being aware of the body. Use physical sensation as your anchor to the present moment. It is the simplest and most direct path to mindfulness.
  • Trust the Dhamma as Your Guide. When navigating internal struggles, the Buddha’s teachings provide a time-tested framework. Turn to them for wisdom on transforming suffering into peace.
Screaming Wisdom: Lessons from a Disturbing Sydney Commute

Screaming Wisdom: Lessons from a Disturbing Sydney Commute

TLDR : An unsettling tram ride sparks a deep reflection on society’s treatment of mental illness and what we can do about it.

Editor’s note: This is an adapted article from Roberta’s blog of reflection and learnings.

The doors of the Sydney City Tram had just closed behind me when I heard the bellowing of an older man at the end of the carriage.

The man was stout, about 1.6m tall and had brown and grey speckled hair. His only belongings- a wheeled fabric shopping trolley. 

At first glance, he looked unassuming and could easily have been just a regular rush hour commuter – Except for the fact he was bellowing at a younger man, who stood across from him on this packed tin can.

The poor younger man, probably in his early 30s was tall with clean-cut brown hair. He wore a brown linen blazer, a blue cotton t-shirt and trendy white sneakers. He held onto the straps of his rectangular tech backpack, trying to look down or away from the man.

You’re a bully!

Screaming Wisdom: Lessons from a Disturbing Sydney Commute

“Why are you coming so close to me!!”,  the old man yelled. “You’re a bully! How dare you come so close to me!”. He kept repeating the phrases (and other words that I dare not mention here). 

It didn’t take long for us bystanders to realise that the older man lived in some delusional reality where the fellow commuter was an enemy and wanted to harm him. In reality, he had done nothing worthy of the attack from an old man on a tram.

He remained in the firing line for a long 2 minutes, until the tram finally pulled up at the next destination. Thankfully the old man (still pointing his finger and yelling at the young man), would disembark. 

The relief

We all breathed a sigh of relief. Anyone could see that there was no calming the man or interjecting the situation without escalating his demeanour and the yelling. 

When the doors closed, it felt like the entire carriage experienced a collective sigh of relief and broke into conversation.  I’d find out from commuters who were sitting in the carriage before the young man had boarded, that two young girls were in the firing line of the old man earlier. 

He had yelled the same claims (“Why are you so close to me! Stay away from me, you bully!”). The young man had been the unlucky recipient and casualty for the entire carriage.

The real victim

The more I heard, the more I realised that the real victim was the old man. Whatever his life experience so far, he was suffering and it was manifesting in screaming fits and strangers. 

This moment arose karuna – the Buddhist practice of boundless compassion for all beings, especially those trapped in their own suffering. It breaks through our superficial view of people and sees their suffering underneath their hard exteriors.

Everyone was the enemy. Whatever had led to his mental condition, it was possibly amplified by loneliness and isolation, and as a society, we don’t have the ability or conviction to band together and help.

We sigh breaths of relief when we don’t have to face the presence of mental illness in our cities.

I won’t lie, in that moment, thinking about the gravity of the situation, I lost faith in our society and our ability to help the helpless.

The dominance of self-help and putting the onus on individuals to get better and “cure” themselves seems like a dangerous and ineffective way to treat people who actually need help. 

I’m a huge proponent of personal development and honing the tools to enrich your life. However, most of the content is beneficial for the average population not affected by more severe mental conditions.

Not understanding but tolerating

Screaming Wisdom: Lessons from a Disturbing Sydney Commute

We train doctors, lawyers, teachers, and specialists, and yet as a society we have become so transactional and indifferent to strangers, it often feels like people are simply checking off a box instead of providing genuine treatment plans and following up. 

Following our personal convictions has been eclipsed by the idea of following the economic flow. This has led to more of us simply tolerating each other, rather than understanding each other.

How did we become like this and how can we continue the learning and connection well into adulthood and beyond?

Sitting here hours after the incident, I wonder where would this old man go in the evening – did he even have a home or was that wheeled bag carrying his life’s belongings? What had happened in his life, that anyone who came close to him was a “bully” or “trying to fight him”?

What would trigger the man to begin yelling at another fellow commuter at another time on another day? Would he ever get the treatment he needs to live his life without inflicting himself and others conflict and pain?

The young man, who had shown a supernatural level of resilience, made a comment which really stood out to me. “I’ve been hearing about a lot of these outbreaks recently. I can’t help but think it is a spiritual issue.”

The left behinds

A spiritual issue?

I’ve been thinking about this comment a lot this evening. The young man had elaborated to explain to the few of us remaining on the tram, that he believes there is a correlation with the polarisation from technology, isolation from covid, as well as the breakdown of religion in our society, which leave behind individuals who are isolated and traumatised. 

They are relegated to cope with their traumas alone. He believed that the old man was dealing with personal demons in the best way he knew how. To fight with anyone who he saw as a threat or an oppressor to him personally – and clearly it did not take a lot for him to get triggered.

I’m well aware, that thinking about all of this well after the event, not having done anything in the moment is hypocritical. What am I doing to help the situation of helping create positive societal glue? How are we moving forward with the people who are so left behind and don’t have the resources or the networks to help them?

I think we need to be more compassionate about curious about each other.

I will do better, but we all need to do better too.


Wise Steps:

  1. Practice mindful observation: Notice without judgment the behaviors and struggles of those around you.
  2. Cultivate compassion: Recognize that everyone, even those who seem difficult, is fighting their own battles.
Dhamma vs. Adhamma (ft. Uncle Vijaya)

Dhamma vs. Adhamma (ft. Uncle Vijaya)

Summary

In the vast ocean of teachings, how do we discern the true Dhamma from the false? This question echoes through the ages, resonating in the hearts of seekers and practitioners alike. In a recent conversation with Uncle Vijaya, we delve deep into this inquiry, shedding light on crucial steps for navigating the path of Buddhism amidst a sea of teachings.

About the Speaker

Vijaya Samarawickrama, fondly known as Uncle Vijaya, is a respected figure within Buddhist communities, delivering countless inspiring Dhamma talks at universities, schools, and Dhamma centres throughout Malaysia, as well as in Singapore and Australia, spanning over six decades. In addition to his speaking engagements, he held the role of Patron at the Sasana Abhiwurdhi Wardhana Society in Kuala Lumpur and served as the Chairman of Nalanda Institute’s Education team. He represented Malaysia in various Buddhist conventions and conferences, both locally and internationally. He has authored over a dozen booklets, with more than 150,000 copies distributed worldwide. Before his retirement, he held the position of a senior lecturer at Universiti Teknologi Malaysia and worked as a lecturer in Drama and Theatre, Public Speaking, and World Religion at Taylor’s University American Degree Program.

Key Takeaways

Staying Faithful to the Buddha’s Words

At the heart of discernment lies the Buddha’s seal of approval. Uncle Vijaya emphasizes the significance of aligning teachings with the canonized scriptures, known as the Nikayas. These ancient texts, meticulously preserved through oral tradition, serve as a benchmark for authenticity. As the Buddha explained to Venerable Gotami in Aṅguttaranikāya (Numbered Discourses) 8.53:

“You might know that certain things lead to dispassion, not passion; to unyoking, not to yoking; to dispersal, not accumulation (of worldly gains); to fewer desires, not more; to contentment, not lack of contentment; to seclusion, not crowding; to energy, not laziness; to being unburdensome, not being burdensome. Categorically, you should remember these things as the teaching, the training, and the Teacher’s instructions.”

Guidance of Wise Teachers

In the journey of discernment, wise mentors illuminate the path. Cheryl and Uncle Vijaya stress the importance of seeking guidance from experienced practitioners who embody the teachings they impart. Discerning true Dhamma requires more than intellectual understanding; it demands experiential wisdom nurtured through the guidance of compassionate and knowledgeable teachers. With humility and patience, seekers can gradually deepen their understanding and practice, following the footsteps of those who have traversed the path before them.

In essence, discerning true Dhamma from false teachings is a journey of self-discovery and inner transformation. By anchoring ourselves in the Buddha’s timeless wisdom, seeking guidance from wise mentors, and nurturing inner virtues, we navigate the path with clarity and purpose. As Uncle Vijaya reminds us, amidst the myriad teachings and traditions, the true Dhamma shines as a beacon of liberation, guiding us toward the ultimate goal of awakening.

Transcript:

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Cheryl: Welcome to the Handful of Leaves podcast. My name is Cheryl. And with me I have Uncle Vijaya. For those who are big fans of our YouTube and our podcast, you will recognize that Uncle Vijaya has done an episode with us before. So I’m very excited to have Uncle Vijaya back.

I’m excited to be here too.

Awesome. we will be talking about distinguishing between false Dhamma and true Dhamma. nowadays there’s so many people who teach Dhamma. If you just Google or you just YouTube, everyone calls themselves a Dhamma teacher.

We have lay people, we have monastics, random people. So information is everywhere and anyone can package their teachings as the way to enlightenment. So for those who are interested in Buddhism, how can we discern that we’re truly learning the Buddha’s words and the Eightfold path?

So, Uncle Vijaya is awesome. He’s so experienced, very, very experienced Dhamma teacher. And I can’t think of anyone better who will enlighten us on this topic.

[00:01:06] Uncle Vijaya: No.

Thank you. Okay. So, what we in Buddhist circles would call what you are referring to is Adhamma. Dhamma is that which is approved by the Buddha, taught by the Buddha, and we’re very fortunate that even during the Buddha’s time, when he was still alive, what he taught was codified, classified and approved by the Buddha. I’ll go into that in a minute. But, during the Buddha’s time also, this was necessitated by the fact that there was a lot of Adhamma going on. Adhamma meaning that which is not Dhamma.

And a lot of people were either on their own making claims or for publicity purposes, misrepresenting the Buddha. One is misrepresenting, one is genuinely not understanding. Behind all of this is the fact that the Dhamma is not easy to understand. It is not for the faint-hearted. Yeah, the Buddha realized that immediately after his enlightenment. He asked himself whether he should share this Dhamma, which has brought him so much of personal benefit. Then he hesitated And he said it’s too difficult.

It is too complex and it is may not be worth his while to try and explain it to people whose eyes are covered with dust, who cannot see. So it’s a waste of time. He was on the verge of moving away because of the possibility that Adhamma would interfere. Whether he wanted to go and waste the rest of his life or the thought occurred to him, why don’t he become a Pacceka Buddha. Pacceka Buddhas are Buddhas, in exactly like our Buddha but they do not have the ability to teach. So they are called silent Buddhas. So the Buddha thought of becoming a Pacceka Buddha.

[00:03:25] Cheryl: This is a very profound moment because in the past the Buddha actually forsake the opportunity to become an Arahant because he wanted to become a Buddha to benefit all sentient beings.

But the fact that when he became a Buddha, he then had the doubts of whether he should teach. So it really points to how sublime this Dhamma is.

[00:03:48] Uncle Vijaya: How sublime…… It wasn’t the failing on the Buddha’s part, but the Buddha’s own realization of whether there are beings that would understand. Why waste? Why cast pearls before swine? You know, so when that thought occurred to him, we are so lucky. Venerable Sangharakshita says that mankind’s fate hung in the balance, very dramatic. Now, should I, should I not. And then Maha Brahma comes down and pleads with the Buddha and says, please do go ahead and teach because there are beings with little dust in their eyes.

And then the Buddha said, it’s not that the Buddha needed to be told that, the Buddha knew it. But I think this is the way of expressing that there was a need, and there was the assurance. History has shown that he made the right decision to teach because there were so many who benefited right down to our own time.

Okay. So it was Maha Brahma who pleaded with the Buddha to teach the Dhamma, and the Buddha proceeded. And the Buddha achieved a lot. During the 45 years of his teaching, there was so much of Adamma as well.

Some were doing it viciously, others were doing it innocently. They didn’t understand. And the Buddha had to constantly remind his followers to go ahead and follow his Dhamma. And he made many, many discourses where he separated the Dhamma from the Adhamma, yeah?

How do you differentiate between the two? And we are fortunate in that the Buddha himself Approved what is Dhamma and what is not.

One incident is, just before the Buddha passed away, the Buddha was already quite old, reaching the end of his career, and one of the strongest opponents, those who are teaching other views, was a Philosopher called Nigantha Nātaputta. And he had just died.

And after he died, because he had not made clear what it is that he was teaching, and he made final decisions on what to teach and what not to teach, when he died, there was a huge amount of controversy. And it became very ugly.

Okay. Now we come back to the Buddha. So the Buddha was in this place, and he had given the Dhamma talk, and he said, okay, now it’s time. I want to rest. And it goes, Sariputta, while I am resting, I can see that the monks are very alert, they are not sleepy, you see, and they are ready for more Dhamma talk. So while I rest, you go ahead and teach on my behalf.

Get the picture? It’s late in the evening, Buddha had just finished, monks were still alert and ready to listen more. And Sariputta was told, okay, please deputize for me. And Sariputta said, now that Nigantha Nātaputta has just died, there’s so much of controversy because there’s no authority to say what is the truth and what is not. We will avoid this. So he said that to do this, he will list out everything that the Buddha taught. Now we know that the popular saying is there were 84000 units of Dhamma that the Buddha taught over his 45 years. So he said, let us codify that. Let us collate that. Let us organize that.

Okay, and remember it was a culture which had no writing. It was an oral culture. and Venerable Sariputta decided to chant together in the Digha Nikaya. Yeah, it is recorded as the chanting together, Saṅgīti Sutta (DN 33). So he said, let us all together recite everything that the Buddha taught, right? And they used a device which we use for remembering, mnemonics because it’s not a written device. It’s an oral thing and to remember, so what they did was they put this knowledge that they had accumulated, uh, codified it into 1, 2, 3.

What is 1…

what is 2…

what is 3… Triple Gem. Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta. All the 3s, all the 4s, all the way down.

So the whole night, Sariputta and the rest of the monks together recited everything, they rehearsed. Everything that the Buddha spoke on in ones, twos, threes, fours, and so on, right? And by the time they finished, it was already morning. And the Buddha got up from his rest. And he said, I heard it all. I approve. Sadhu! Yes, my hair also stands on end, Sadhu! Because that tells us that we have right down to our time what the Buddha taught. This is the Dhamma, right? And anything that is not included in this, that is not the Dhamma.

[00:09:51] Cheryl: So, this gives a lot of assurance and confidence that whenever we hear something that we’re not sure of, we can go back and check because the Buddha gave the stamp of approval.

[00:10:02] Uncle Vijaya: Absolutely. That was when the Budha was still alive. Immediately after the Budha died, seven months after he died, we had the First Council (483 BC). And in that First Council,

Venerable Ananda, “thus have I heard”.

One of the arrangements that Venerable Ananda made with the Buddha before he agreed to serve him was whatever Dhamma talk that the Buddha gave, if he had not been present, the Buddha would repeat. So, Venerable Ananda, he had a fantastic memory. Yeah, he listened and he remembered everything that the Buddha had taught in his presence as well as outside of it. For example, it is said that he spent three months in Tāvatiṃsa heaven preaching to his mother.

When he came back, he repeated that to Venerable Ananda, so that when the First Council took place, very soon, while it was still hot it was recorded again, using the same mnemonic device of ones, twos, threes. So we can be rest assured that this is the Dhamma. If any other teaching comes about later, well and good, provided that it fits in with the teaching of Dhamma.

Why did I say that? Because the Buddha said don’t reject everything as not Dhamma. Sometimes it can qualify, although the Buddha himself didn’t say it’s Dhamma, because he says his teaching is like the footprint of the elephant. It is the biggest footprint in the jungle. All other footprints will fit into that.

So other religions would also teach Dhamma mixed with Adhamma. The Buddha’s Four Noble Truths is the Dhamma and it’s not adulterated. This is the beauty of the Buddha’s teaching from then until now. Don’t condemn everybody else. He always says don’t condemn others. What they say may have elements of Dhamma. Look for that. And then this coincides with what the Buddha had taught. So accept. This way we avoid a whole lot of quarrels and so on. To say that all religions teach false, except Buddhism, the Buddha says, no, that is not a sensible way of approaching it. Yeah, if what they say coincides with what the Buddha said, well and good.

If it is not, without rancor, without anger, without bad manners, don’t reject. Just let it go. There you go. Just don’t accept. So this is the Dhamma and Adhamma. We are saying this because in today’s day and age with internet and so many new knowledges coming in, people are free to think for themselves.

Buddhism never stops you from thinking for yourself, but whatever is thought must be in line with the Dhamma.

[00:13:22] Cheryl: I’m just thinking about this question because a lot of it depends on our own independent investigation of what the Buddha said, right? The suttas. But as beginners, sometimes the suttas can be very difficult to understand.

 We’re a blank slate in that sense.

[00:13:41] Uncle Vijaya: Yes. Okay. The Buddha has an answer for that. He says his Dhamma is very deep, but it is like stepping into the ocean.

When you are on the beach, only your toes get wet, but the deeper you go, it becomes more and more complex. So, start with the basics. Start with the basic, which is the Four Noble Truths. Take as much as you can, for which you need competent teachers. Now, teachers can be those who are part of the tradition, all our Sangha community.

Lay Buddhist speakers and so on on the one hand, all right. Then of course we have the advantage of the internet. We have the technology, so we can use that as well. Take it a little bit at a time, don’t jump into the deep end of the pool. Like the Buddha says, first get your toes wet, then get your knees wet.

Don’t go and jump into the pool and say, tomorrow I want to be an Arahant. It is a gradual path. So, to answer your question, look for teachers who will take you by the hand. My own teacher was Venerable Narada, all right? And then, of course, the late Chief.

And they didn’t teach me about Abhidhamma at the beginning. They taught me how to be a good Buddhist on a day to day basis. I was comfortable with that. I didn’t need to go jump into meditation and all. And as I went along, I went deeper, so that way you don’t get frustrated. A lot of people jump in with too high expectations, and then they give up and blame Buddhism for it.

Buddhism is not to blame. Our approach is the one. So, we always are advised to look for competent teachers. And we are so lucky in this day and age, an unbroken chain from the time of the Saṅgīti Sutta (DN 33) to now, we have teachers who are able to help us to follow, to understand. But we must develop the humility and the patience to say it’s a gradual cannot happen overnight.

Some people are lucky. They are prepared, like in the sutras we hear of people gaining instant Arahanthood. Why? Because it has all been developed in past lives. So like Venerable Assaji tells Venerable Sariputta, just one line and Venerable Sariputta got enlightened. But we have to wait.

[00:16:43] Cheryl: We have to develop our spiritual faculties now. So next time, hopefully someone tells us one line and we get it.

[00:16:48] Uncle Vijaya: Absolute. Little by little, we build them up, okay?

[00:16:53] Cheryl: Yes. And you touched upon the point of having good teachers are very, very important. So what are the qualities that we should look out for in good teachers?

[00:17:02] Uncle Vijaya: A good teacher.

First, their own behavior. How do they carry themselves? Does what they say match what they do. A lot of teachers have the aura so and their own path. It’s easy to see very soon you can see the hypocrite from the genuine. And they’re all around us. There are bogus monks everywhere and you can see. Just look on their wrist if there’s a rolex there then okay, that’s a good indicator. Don’t follow him when he tells you to renounce everything and follow him. So like the little things.

Yeah, be sharp. Be humble. Don’t necessarily say I know better than him. The Buddha says that many occasions especially in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta. The Buddha tells us that when you hear something don’t reject it outright. Don’t accept it outright. If that’s something in praise of the Buddha, don’t necessarily rejoice. Listen and put it against does this tally with what the Buddha said.

 Here, let me share with you this quote which I think is very beautiful. A very senior monk in Buddhist and Pali university in Sri Lanka shared this with us.

He quoted an article which appeared significantly in Sri Lanka about somebody telling us how to conduct ourselves. He says, if you are still a lay devotee, enjoy all the worldly pleasures your senses require you to do. And experience that they are not permanent. Now this guy is advising us that if you are still lay people, enjoy life, be hedonistic, you know the five senses.

Because if you don’t know, you don’t know what you’re giving up. When you get fed up, then you give up. Now, this monk is asking, even in today’s day and age, there are people claiming that this is Buddhism. We know that the Buddha has taught us to treat this thing as if it’s like a man whose beard is on fire. If his beard is on fire, he won’t wait to see the end of the fire to examine the scientific reasons for fire and so on.

He will put it out straight away. We are struck by the poison arrow of samsara. We cannot wait until tomorrow. We don’t have up to tomorrow. So you see, this is a good example of Adhamma.

What do we do? We put it against what the Buddha taught. We don’t throw it away and say, no, this is rubbish. Examine, does it make sense? Yeah, does it conform with what I have learned so far about what the Buddha has said? The Buddha says all is suffering. And he says that this suffering persists all the time. Everything is anicca. Anicca meaning everything is impermanent. So, this life now. It’s impermanent.

I cannot wait for tomorrow. I cannot wait. There is no tomorrow. It’s Akalika. It is transcending time. So when this guy says, have fun, enjoy life, and then when you are old, decide to become a Buddhist. No, this is Adhamma. And this monk shared this with us to make this point that even today it is so easy.

[00:21:00] Cheryl: And it’s so scary because it’s like half correct, half wrong, half correct in the sense that yes, we have to contemplate about impermanence.

[00:21:07] Uncle Vijaya: Absolutely. It is that half correct thing. But the Buddha says if we give in to our emotions and simply because we think it does not agree, that will cloud our thinking.

The Buddha says, don’t rejoice and don’t get angry. Calmly examine what this guy said and say, no, this is not the Dhamma. This is Adhamma. Dhamma is immediately.

 Your beard is burning, or you have been struck by a poison arrow, you don’t wait for tomorrow, right? So to answer this, I go back to the Buddha’s teaching and say, I cannot accept this.

So it is very difficult because especially today, with the commercialization of Buddhism through mindfulness training and all of that, it’s so easy for us to think that if we do all of this for material gain. See, there, whatever the Buddha taught was to lead us towards renunciation, to lead us towards giving up.

Here we are, how to make millions using mindfulness. I brought this up with Venerable Jayasaro and asked him, is it not wrong for them to use? He said, no, because mindfulness in itself is good. So if a person practices mindfulness, even if it is for the wrong reason, it is better than no mindfulness at all.

Get the point?

[00:22:56] Cheryl: I get the point, but I don’t really agree. If the person, let’s say, trains to become a sniper and uses mindfulness training to help them to kill more people, isn’t that wrong all the way?

[00:23:08] Uncle Vijaya: Yes, it is wrong all the way. It is definitely wrong. Hitler, for example, probably was very mindful, but he was wrong. We cannot approve. This is where the Buddha says, step back. Is this possible? This is not. But we have to admit that all over the world, people who go into mindfulness, whatever the reason, have become calm. So the immediate fallout from that is better calmness, maybe more patience.

And hopefully later he will step into the path, but that is better than allowing him to go into the way of, remember those days, the character training, they treat you as a doormat, and people are making lots of money, kill everybody, jump on the top, that kind of very bad teaching on materialism is sort of gone out of fashion today.

More people are into mindfulness. So maybe it’s a slow but better movement. Maybe we are getting more intelligent. Maybe we are getting slightly more wise.

[00:24:22] Cheryl: At least it’s a step in the right direction.

[00:24:24] Uncle Vijaya: A little step in the right direction.

[00:24:28] Cheryl: So what if we have friends who follow the guidance of wrong teachers? So meaning we think their teachers are wrong because of perhaps their ethical conduct or perhaps their teachings are a little bit fishy. How can we help them?

[00:24:47] Uncle Vijaya: We can help them first, go back to again what the Buddha advised. First thing is don’t reject them. Don’t condemn them. Don’t take an antagonistic view. Don’t pity them. Yeah, all of them. Don’t lose your respect for them. They are thinking wrong but you have to practice your Metta, Karuna, Mudita, Upekkha all the time. Always remember that whenever you want to go and condemn somebody you condemn yourself first because you have gone into anger and so on.

So first thing is develop a mind of Metta towards everybody. Follow the Buddha’s teaching. Take it, test it against what he had taught. Is this Dhamma? Is this not Adhamma? If it conforms with what the Buddha taught, accept it. If it does not, mindfully, carefully, without anger, explain to your friend, this is not Dhamma.

If he chooses, not to follow, like in the case of Devadatta, no matter what the Buddha did, he constantly went against the Buddha. If that is the case, then leave it. The Buddha left him alone. There was this other guy, Channa. Channa was very proud and Channa became a monk and he was impossible to control to the point that even the Buddha couldn’t control him.

He was so egoistic. The Buddha advised the monks to boycott. Boycott, not out of anger or whatever, but we can’t do anything with you, we better leave you alone. So that is the advice we are given. Don’t compromise ourselves. Don’t go into anger, condemnation.

People who are too enthusiastic about their religion. They want everybody to follow their way and they condemn anybody who doesn’t. Buddha says, no, don’t do that. Don’t compromise yourself. You must all the time be that lotus flower. If you can change, effect the change. A lot of people have trouble with convincing their parents. Good to go from wrong behavior to right behavior.

If you can, it’ll be good if you can change. But to fight and create more anger and hatred, that is not the Buddhist way. Patience, tolerance, understanding. So use those three as your guidelines. If possible, change people with wrong views. But if it is not possible, leave them.

[00:27:42] Cheryl: And sometimes the wisest thing is to actually walk away, because that is a form of understanding that any more effort that I try will just lead to unwholesome states to arise.

[00:27:53] Uncle Vijaya: For me, so before I throw, you know, filth, I must remember my hand will get dirty first. But that shouldn’t give rise to a sense of superiority. A lot of people we know saying, Oh, I am safe. Oh, I’m a good Buddhist. You know, I follow that guy is going to hell. That kind of superiority also is ego that we have to guard.

That’s more difficult to guard against. A lot of people take a very self righteous view. The Buddha constantly warns us, don’t be self righteous. You can help the person. More than being self-righteous you have to develop metta, karuna, more karuna, compassion for his wrong view. Metta, karuna, mudita.

Upekkha is that highest level. Don’t suffer with the suffering.

[00:28:54] Cheryl: And once people, let’s say, once people leave these wrong teachings, what I think can happen is they lose faith in Buddhism altogether because what they knew to be Buddhism is completely wrong. And if they find that out, they could be very lost. So how can we support them after they leave in that sense?

[00:29:17] Uncle Vijaya: Well, partly we can put it down to their own kind. They are not ready yet. Yeah, they may not be bad people. This is an important point to say. You have to see whatever goodness. There’s nobody who’s totally bad or totally wrong. All right, whatever good that he does, could eventually serve him in good stead to bring him along the right path.

Maybe this life, it went wrong. All right, hopefully next life he is born into a Buddhist family for whatever good he did, follow the right way, then he is safe. One way. Another way is to accept that not everybody can follow the path in the same way. So, support them to the extent that we can. Don’t make matters worse by being self righteous, as I said. By trying to change that person and creating more anger, more hatred. Maybe the better approach is to move, of course, radiating Metta, you know, behaving towards him with the same compassion, without a sense of superiority.

[00:30:33] Cheryl: Thanks so much for sharing and I’m just wondering if there’s anything that you have prepared that you want to share?

[00:30:38] Uncle Vijaya: I would like to share a lovely story. There was this monk, yeah, his name was Punna. Punna came to the Buddha one day and told the Buddha, Master, I want to go away to a very far away country and share my life with the people there.

But before I go, can you please give me a short teaching that I can use to meditate? So the Buddha gives him that short teaching, which is to do with the five senses. Whenever we use our five senses to attach to objects in the world, that leads to pain and suffering. The same five senses, when they attach, we do not connect, we disengage ourselves from this, that leads to happiness.

So that was a short teaching. Then the Buddha says where are you going? And Punna says, I’m going to a place called Sunaparanta. And Buddha said, you’re going to that place? That’s a very dangerous place. The people there are very unfriendly. What will you do if those people ridicule you?

If they ridicule me, he says, I am so happy they’re only ridiculing me, they do not hit me. And the Buddha said, what if they do hit me? Then he said, I will say, I’m so happy they only hit me with a stone, but they didn’t hit me with a stick. Then what if they hit you with a stick? Then I’ll say, they didn’t hit me with a knife.

And, what if they do hit me, then I’m glad they didn’t kill me. What if they do kill you? Then I will say, I’m very happy that I am waiting to leave this existence. I’m waiting to attain Nibbana. These people have helped me. So in all instances, I will maintain goodwill towards them. And the story goes that the Buddha said, now you are ready to go.

So I’ve said this because your question about how do we treat people who are antagonistic towards us. Always find something positive. Always develop your four Brahmaviharas. And the story goes that he did go, and he did meditate on what was told, he became an Arahant.

They came back and told the Buddha, Punna had died, he said, yes. It never bothered me, he didn’t ask me too many questions.

[00:33:32] Cheryl: Such a short yet profound teaching.

[00:33:34] Uncle Vijaya: There’s one I’d like to share with you I think this is relevant. The Buddha’s foster mother was Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī. You have been asking me how to tell right Dhamma and wrong Dhamma, okay? Well, Venerable Gotamī came to the Buddha and said, There are so many teachings. How do I tell the right Dhamma from the wrong Dhamma?

Your question. And the Buddha explained, of whatsoever teachings, Gotamī, thou can assure yourself thus. If I hear anything that makes me more angry or more happy,

conduce to passion, not to dispassion,

to bondage, not to detachment,

to increase of worldly gain, not to decrease of that,

to covetousness, not to frugality,

to discontent, not to content,

to company, not solitude,

to sluggishness, not energy,

to delight in evil, not delight in good. If any of these teachings lead in that direction,

of such teachings, you may with certainty affirm, Gotamī, this is not the norm. If any of these apply, then this is not what I taught.

This is not the discipline. But of whatsoever teachings you can assure yourself that they are the opposite of these things that I have told you, these teachings you may with certainty affirm, this is the norm. This is the discipline. Now, we can see in the world today, so many teachings, so many ways of behavior that is increasing so much anger, hatred, all in the name of religion, we can safely say, this is not what the Buddha taught. But if it teaches compassion, if it teaches sharing, if it teaches peace, solitude then this is what the Buddha taught. So it’s very basic, very simple, right? A lot of your questions you asked is answered by that.

[00:35:46] Cheryl: This is a beautiful checklist, right? That is offered by the Buddha.

[00:35:53] Uncle Vijaya: By the Buddha himself. So we don’t need to go anywhere else. We are constantly told, go back to the Nikayas. I have one more way of checking.

Do these ways of thinking appear in the Nikayas? I remember the one who said, enjoy your life so that you get fed up, then you give up. Now, is it in the Nikayas? No, there’s nothing in the Nikayas.

[00:36:19] Cheryl: And I’m well, I’m curious. What about within Buddhism? There’s so many different traditions.

Yeah. And they can be most of them are similar, but some can be quite different, especially in terms of the focus and the meditation techniques. And I tend to lean towards the conservative side, meaning if I found a tradition that I feel like, okay, that’s It helps me. I think that I am aligned with the teachings.

 And I believe this is the same for many people as well, where they say, don’t go and confuse yourself.

[00:36:51] Uncle Vijaya: Four Noble Truths. That’s all the Buddha teaches.

He kept saying that. I only teach one thing, suffering, the end of suffering. All that I’m here to do is to teach you to be happy. Now you want to find this by being happy, Go ahead. Does it make you happy? Gotami again. Yeah. Certainly I agree with you. I’m a Theravadin. I have accepted it.

I have a great deal of interest in what all the other traditions teach. I have found after so many years that all these great traditions all teach the same Four Noble Truths. The Buddha’s teaching is so comprehensive there are all these different methods to suit different personalities. Even the Buddha himself, he didn’t teach the same thing to everybody.

He saw people’s capacities. Intelligent people, he taught intelligent things. People who couldn’t understand, he just said, rub this white cloth… you can become enlightened, these traditions of Buddhism arose to suit different temperaments, but do they all lead to the ultimate truth?

Do they all lead to nirvana it does for those individuals? So be it. I have enough problems looking after my own salvation. I don’t even have time to worry about my grandchildren.

[00:38:36] Cheryl: Yeah. And then it goes back to the point that time is so limited. This human rebirth is so, so rare. Yes. What are we doing? Why waste our time being a busy-body.

[00:38:49] Uncle Vijaya: Exactly. You just follow the Four Noble Truths. Do good. Avoid evil. Purify the mind. It’s simple as that. All these Nikayas, all these, it’s good for the intelligent man.

But what the Buddha says that we don’t want all that, we don’t need all of that. We need the simple do good, five precepts, avoid evil, five ennoblers, purify the mind. Rid your mind of lobha (greed), dosa (aversion), moha (delusion). You’re free, but it’s very, very difficult. You know that story, don’t you?

About this guy, Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma is the great Indian saint who brought Buddhism to China and Japan. Anyway, on his way to China, he was stopped by a chief. When the chief caught hold of Venerable Bodhidharma, he said, teach me about Buddhism. Bodhidharma was going to go into a one hour talk. He said, no, I don’t have time for that. Just tell me in four lines. What does Buddhism teach? Very easy. Do good, avoid evil, purify the mind. This is the teaching of all the Buddhas. So the guy says, if that is all, then your Buddhism, any child of five can understand.

A child of five can understand, cannot practice. That is the point. Purify the mind. Do good, avoid evil. I think most of us can. Purify the mind to remove the anger, hatred, jealousy, all of this, you know, mess up the mind. Can we clarify that?

If, as he says to Gotami, if all these different traditions can help me purify the mind, your tradition may not help me purify my mind. My tradition, I’m comfortable. So I find the tradition that helps me best.

[00:41:04] Cheryl: Thank you so much for sharing. And I think with that, we can come to the end of this episode as well. I personally gained so much from Uncle Vijaya’s teachings where he puts things in such a simple way to understand, cuts through all the nonsense and go back to the Buddha’s teachings, check against what He mentioned or didn’t mention. From there with a clear mind, objective mind discern for ourselves whether whatever information that we gain can actually benefit us or not. Thank you to all our listeners who have come towards the end. And I hope you like this episode. Give us five stars and share this with your friends.

See you stay happy and wise.

Resources:

Special thanks to our sponsors:

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Editor and transcriber of this episode: 

Cheryl Cheah, Susara Ng, Ke Hui Tee

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Buddhism vs. Spirituality: When to Call Yourself A Buddhist? ft. Ray Choo (Director and Producer of Waking Up 2050)

Buddhism vs. Spirituality: When to Call Yourself A Buddhist? ft. Ray Choo (Director and Producer of Waking Up 2050)

Summary:

In our newest episode, we delve into the intricate journey of spiritual identity with our special guest, Ray Choo, director and producer of Waking Up 2050 🎬. From his personal experiences to the broader concepts of Buddhism, Ray sheds light on embracing the Buddhist identity as a commitment to the path of wisdom and compassion, and unravel the evolving perceptions of religion and spirituality in today’s world.

About the Speakers

👤 Ray Choo Hongrui was born and raised in Singapore. He studied Communications Design in Berlin, Germany, at HTW Berlin-University of Applied Sciences where he had the opportunity to try his hand at filmmaking and storytelling and experience a world where Buddhism, its meanings and functions are not established. The conversation in the West is just gaining momentum and presence. In trying to contribute to this dialogue, Ray redefined for himself what it means, to walk the path of Dharma. Through WAKING UP 2050, he met his teacher Lopen Pema Deki with whom he took his precepts and continues to study the Dharma. Ray currently works and resides in Berlin as a motion designer.

Key Takeaways:

The Journey of Embracing the Buddhist Identity

Ray’s narrative unveils the intricate journey of self-identification as a Buddhist. Despite being born into a Buddhist family, he embarked on a profound exploration of his spiritual identity. Through pivotal life events, including his father’s stroke and the sudden loss of a friend, Ray found himself grappling with the essence of Buddhism and its relevance in his life. His decision to formally take refuge in Buddhism was not merely a label but a commitment to a path of wisdom and compassion.

The Practicality of Buddhist Practice

The conversation emphasizes the practicality of Buddhist teachings in navigating life’s challenges. Ray vividly recounts instances where his newfound Buddhist perspective provided solace and guidance to those around him. From offering comfort to grieving friends to sharing insights on the grieving process, Ray illustrates how Buddhist principles transcend mere rituals, offering tangible support and wisdom in times of need. Buddhism, as Ray articulates, is not confined to temples or scriptures but is deeply embedded in the fabric of everyday life, offering practical tools for navigating its complexities.

Embracing the Journey with Openness

A recurring theme throughout the conversation is the importance of embracing the journey of self-discovery and spiritual growth with openness and humility. Kai Xin and Ray explore the nuances of spiritual identity, challenging conventional notions of labels and boxes. While acknowledging the significance of formal ceremonies like taking refuge, they also underscore the fluidity of spiritual exploration. Buddhism, as they affirm, is not a rigid structure but a dynamic path that evolves with each individual’s journey.

In essence, the conversation between Kai Xin and Ray Choo serves as a poignant reminder of the multifaceted nature of Buddhism and the profound impact it can have on one’s life. Beyond labels and rituals, Buddhism offers a transformative journey towards wisdom, compassion, and self-realization. As Ray eloquently concludes, it is not about reaching a destination but embracing the path with sincerity and an open heart.

Transcript:

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Kai Xin: All right. Today we have a very special guest on our Handful of Leaves podcast where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life. We have Ray with us whom I’ve met at THIS Buddhist Film Fest last year, 2023. He is the director and producer of Waking Up 2050. So welcome Ray to our podcast.

[00:00:21] Ray Choo: Thanks so much for having me. I’m so flattered and honored to be here that you want to hear my thoughts.

[00:00:27] Kai Xin: No, I mean, I feel honored to have you here. So what is Waking Up 2050?

[00:00:34] Ray Choo: Waking Up 2050 is a contemplation about Buddhism, its relevance in the hypothetical future, far future and the very present examined through perspectives of truth, kindness, and beauty.

[00:00:45] Kai Xin: In the film, you actually interviewed a few people to share their thoughts about what it means to be Buddhist, right? And it was interesting to me that after the film was screened, we had this post-dialogue and you said that it was only recently that you identified yourself as one. So I’m very curious as to what made you decide that I can call myself a Buddhist now?

[00:01:08] Ray Choo: If it only was like just waking up to be like, Oh, here I am. No. On paper, I was always Buddhist. But only two years ago I’ve taken refuge and committed myself in ceremony to this identity. The opportunity came up when, my teacher, Lopen Pema Deki, offered it to the Sangha. And thankfully I was in the right mindset to see the importance of it and say, okay, yes, I’ll do it. My parents, they’ll say that it’s just ritual. You don’t need to take refuge. It’s all superficial, superstitious. You just need to have it in your heart. What’s up, what’s with all the fuss, right? But for me, leading to that moment to see the significance and the gravity of taking refuge was a lifetime or maybe many lifetimes of experiences and events.

Quite often it is when life takes a difficult turn that you see where your mind is at. Yeah, some major events in my life made me feel ready at that moment. So in 2019, my father had a stroke and at that time I was still in Berlin. I think it was April Fool’s Day. I just started my first day at work and I had to get the first flight back. On the long way back home, I’ve never prayed so hard in my life. So much for a rational Buddhist, right? I was just praying to Guan Yin, Tara. And whether or not it was because of my prayers, my dad survived the stroke. I think it’s not a thing learned in a moment. It’s like a childhood of going to temples and at that moment it helped me, where logic and rationality have no place. You cannot do anything about it. Even then I didn’t officially call myself a Buddhist.

So, in 2021, a few years later… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the film John Wick. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s kind of like a wild caricature experience of samsara, you know? So at that time I just finished school and I was looking for a job and a friend said, Hey, there’s a gig for quick money. Do you want to come along and just show up? I said, okay, fine. I’ll show up. I had to show up to this crazy set. It was being a movie extra on the set. I was dressed up in crazy colorful clothes. You have crazy lighting and you have people fighting everywhere, beautiful bodies moving and Keanu Reeves not dying, whatever they do to him.

And one of the other extras there I’ve met. So it was like a nine-day shooting. She’s this young German girl. We got on really well. There’s a lot of waiting in between every take and you can start to talk. She’s just starting her school studies being a social worker and she’s a great dancer. She’s a passionate dancer. So this young, vibrant life, right. When the filming wrapped up, in a WhatsApp group, we were just going to meet at this bar. And then came this message, Hey, sorry guys, but Leila’s in hospital. but before we could even process, a few hours later, the boyfriend said, she’s gone. We hear about death, we know people die, but it’s the first time to have that loss in front of my eyes.

So it’s very harrowing, even thinking about it now after so many years. But then I thought, oh, okay, what can I do? I’m sort of Buddhist, what can I do to help? Even without formal training, you sort of know, okay, after death there’s this process, right? I was sort of perplexed. Do I go Namo Amitabha? Like, would she know? Because she’s just German, she’s atheist. Like how would it help? So at that point Pema Deki was already my teacher. So I was just very lucky to be able to just message her and say, hey, this happened, what can I do? So she guided me and… I think in that moment, it became clear to me that, we always talk about precious human life, right? It’s just words until you really see a young, precious human life just gone and you’re faced with your own mortality.

 So Lopen Pema Deki, she taught me how to help her as much as I can without the Buddhist context. And then a few months later, again, I was confronted with the passing of a dear friend and it’s different this time. He is someone who lived to 82. He lived a long life. He saw me as his own son. Again, I got hit with, okay, someone dear to me is leaving. What can I do? Again, he’s not Buddhist, right? But then, what’s comforting for me was that even when his family, his sons, they aren’t Buddhist, I was able to offer that prayer and offer sort of guidance in the process. Okay, here’s what I’ve learned, the next 7 days, theoretically, this is what happens. We should do this. We should offer our thoughts, remind him of his good deeds in his life.

Even in a very non-Buddhist way, like, there’s no mention of Avalokiteshvara or anything, it helped them. It helped me also to face death. It’s a huge process, right? And having that knowledge, having that skill, I was able to be calm, and also extend that calmness, maybe also not make the situation worse. There is a program of action. Like, okay, this happens, what can we do? I could offer this. So when the moment came from my teacher, I said, okay I would offer a refuge ceremony. In my heart it’s a definite yes. Because I see the necessity to commit myself to the training for my parents, for friends, for loved ones or other people. I want to be able to be skillful and to be able to provide support in those situations. And so yeah… sorry, that’s a really long answer.

[00:06:19] Kai Xin: No, it’s beautiful how things unfold. You were born a Buddhist like on paper. Same as I am. But innately you’re already having faith of this thing beyond ourselves, right? That prayers work, there’s some form of faith that divine intervention does work, and our sincerity in sending our good wishes to people. So you have all those things. And then what you saw was the divine messengers in the Buddhist context. We see old age, sickness and death. And you met two of those very, very upclose. And it got you to think like, wow, life is very transient.

So when the opportunity struck for you to formally commit, and I guess it’s also like an accountability ceremony, I can’t take this just as a joke. Sometimes I want to be a little bit better. Some days I want not to be so wholesome. It’s like, okay, I’m Buddhist. I’m walking a Buddhist path and there’s benefit, not just to ourselves, but to other people. And for you, it almost seemed like you were more motivated because committing to the training helps you to support the people around you.

[00:07:21] Ray Choo: Yeah, definitely. That’s definitely a pragmatic and practical aspect to it. Compassion and wisdom, they’re not fuzzy, fluffy ideas. They have a practical function. Even Buddhist rituals, we dismiss them very easily, we look down on them. But then, there are domains in life where rationality has its limits and in those intuitive and emotional parts of life, you need wisdom. You need to learn how to cope and use it constructively. I was just thankful that I had this Buddhist experience, even though it was maybe messy and not focused. But you know, when life puts obstacles in your face and even though it’s not clear yet, I do see the point of this goal. Yeah.

[00:08:05] Kai Xin: Yeah. It’s interesting because my path was a little bit different. So for you, you took the official ceremony in order to be like, okay, I’m a Buddhist now. Right. I’m committed. Yeah. There wasn’t really like a day where I feel like, okay, I am one. But I suppose the closest thing was when I went to the Buddhist center at a youth service and then we had to read the five precepts.

[00:08:29] Ray Choo: Right. Yeah.

[00:08:29] Kai Xin: And it felt like it’s not a commandment, but it’s kind of like an aspiration that, hey, you know, I’m going to try to refrain from all these not-so-wholesome acts. And there is power in reciting those because I need to be accountable to myself. And this is a constant reminder when I do it every week. Some people might feel like the formal ceremony of going to take refuge is not so important because I think that’s more prominent in some traditions, like the Tibetan and the Mahayana. For the Theravada tradition, maybe the more formal ceremony would be to don the robes and shave your head maybe temporarily or permanently, not sure. But while we don’t need this formal ceremony to say, okay, you’re a Buddhist now, it does have some form of symbolic meaning to help us practise and walk the path. But having said that also, it’s not to say like, okay, now I have the certificate or I’ve taken refuge. I can break the precepts and not practice virtue as well as concentration and wisdom. It’s like a constant thing. Sometimes we fall behind, sometimes we backslide and then we stand up again.

So I’m very curious about how do you define what a Buddhist or a good Buddhist is? Is it about like being able to pray or like when your friends are in need?

[00:09:49] Ray Choo: No, that’s just like the side effects. I think the main thing is commitment, not to an external divine being or some abstract idea, but you know, it’s like anything, right? Even doctors have to take vows. It’s really about taking responsibility to actually know that this is my path to walk and there’s no one else to blame. It’s my actions. It’s what I do from now on, right.

It’s in a way like growing up. I think in all aspects of life, the moment you take on responsibility, accountability, then you’re starting to grow up. Being Buddhist is not about, I just go to temple when things are fine or not fine. It’s all day, every day, it’s a cultivation.

And to answer your question of how do I define a Buddhist? I actually have to go and ask my teacher because I think we all know the standard definition of a Buddhist, right? Like someone who has taken refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Or someone who was born in a Buddhist country. So more like countries in Thailand, Bhutan, where Buddhism is the fabric of life. Or people who have the view, right?

But when you ask me this question there’s this big elephant in the room. What about people who, like me, as a kid, I just go to the temple without having this clear thought of, okay, I’m going to a temple for Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. I didn’t have that as a kid, but does that count? I actually had to consult my teacher and she said, short answer, yes. Because if you go to the temple, even to a Guanyin temple, there are Dharma texts there and Guanyin is also an embodiment of Buddha and noble Sangha, right? (Guan Yin is a) Bodhisattva, and she has a Buddha on the crown. And also the custodians, the people working at the temple, the Sangha, so the monastics there. So in a very subtle, basic level, yes, I think that still counts as Buddhist. but I think

[00:11:38] Kai Xin: And then what is the non basic level?

[00:11:40] Ray Choo: The non basic level, I think like for you and for me, when we decide to take on that responsibility, I think that brings us to another level where it’s more, for lack of a better word, more powerful. You’re more conscious of what you’re doing. It’s not so random anymore. You know, it’s a conscious effort. Like, I want to be a conscious agent of wisdom and compassion, right? I want to put this into my life.

[00:12:00] Kai Xin: We truly see the benefits of it as well, instead of just going with the motion of like the rites and the rituals without knowing what the meaning is. But it’s more of like the wisdom piece, which you mentioned quite a few times, right?

Like what is the ultimate goal? It’s to free ourselves from greed, hatred, and delusion. And how do we do that? Avoid evil, do good and purify the mind. So it is the path. The Buddha has laid out the Noble Eightfold Path and all Buddhas have taught the same thing. It’s like slowly erasing the delusion that we have, and then the sense of urgency and responsibility to practice becomes even more because we know that, I’m still subject to old age, sickness and death. And as long as I am still in the cycle of birth and death, I can’t be freed from this. So we know we’ve got things to do. Yeah. Like the Buddha has really given us the cure, right? We are considered as patients and he’s the doctor, why don’t we take his medicine, which is very, very effective.

[00:13:00] Ray Choo: And also by taking refuge, it’s not like a level-up. But it’s more like I’ve taken refuge and then I realized that there’s still so much more to learn. I think wherever any Buddhists are at it’s good to have moments of reflection and to check-in with yourself. Where am I now? Where’s my mind at now? Because that informs all your actions, your relationships with your parents, your friends.

[00:13:23] Kai Xin: Would you say that after you have gone through the formal ceremony, you’re a little bit different from before? Before you formally identify yourself as a Buddhist?

[00:13:32] Ray Choo: I’ve got three heads and six arms now.

[00:13:34] Kai Xin: More special abilities.

[00:13:39] Ray Choo: I can levitate. No. In some ways, nothing’s changed, I’m still me. But in many ways, I think it changed. I think my confidence of saying, yes, I’m a Buddhist, it also gave them the confidence to approach me when they come to a difficulty. I feel so lucky that I was able to be their support even if it’s not just solving their problems. With even the limited amount of Buddhist training I’ve had so far, and I was able to skillfully see, okay, what do they need in this moment? Do they just need someone to listen or it’s not necessarily solving their problems. Like when my colleague, their dog died, they didn’t know what to do. And they know that I’m Buddhist so they approached me and said, like, what do we do?

[00:14:18] Kai Xin: It brings comfort, right? Like being able to do something. Even though it’s not logical at all, like it’s not going to resurrect the pet or anything like that, but it has a very powerful effect.

[00:14:29] Ray Choo: Yeah, we shouldn’t underestimate the grieving process, dealing with death. We are so bad at goodbyes. We sort of like wish it away, there’s no goodbye. But I think it’s important to do a good goodbye.

I told him sort of about like the 49 days, about the seven days. Having this vague structure, it gave them a protocol to work on their grief, you know? I felt very, very lucky that I was able to provide that at that point. So there are these kind of benefits, being confident as to call yourself a Buddhist. You can apply yourself with more focus. You see a problem and you can go to the solution and not like guess what I can do.

[00:15:02] Kai Xin: I can resonate with that because I used to be very shy about this, like calling myself a Buddhist. I’m like, Oh, every weekend I go to the Buddhist center, I volunteer. Because it’s such an unfamiliar thing for a young adult to be doing. And I was afraid that I would weird people out.

[00:15:20] Ray Choo: Right. Yeah.

[00:15:21] Kai Xin: And the funny thing was when I started becoming more open and identifying myself as one and being okay with one. People come to me like, Hey, you know, I have this trouble, can you give me some suggestions. I think late last year, some of my primary school or secondary school friends, somehow we were connected on Instagram like many years ago. They saw me actively posting about Buddhist reflections. And then he asked me like, Hey, you know where can I learn more of this or I’d like to volunteer? And they were really sincere about it. So yeah, I thought it’s not a bad thing after all, because if people are searching, then you can be the source for them to share insights and wisdom or direct them to some better teachers.

Having that focus, which you mentioned is like, what do I use as a guide in my daily actions? What do I prioritize? Now it becomes very clear that, okay, in my day, are my activities to reduce greed, hatred, and delusion. Am I entangled in this world and getting distracted and intoxicated with my youth thinking that I have all the time in the world. And then I might still end up scrolling on social media and stuff. But then having that recollection to say, Hey, this is like Mara, the devil playing tricks on our mind. And then having that perseverance and knowing that, Hey, we’ve also got friends on the path with that same goal and same dedication and commitment. I can use them as an inspiration, then it becomes very motivating in some sense, rather than, like you say, very fuzzy, like, Oh, am I, am I not? Cause I know some people, they might not necessarily be very inclined to calling themselves a Buddhist, right? But yeah, I like Buddhist philosophy, so they might subscribe to different teachings.

So I’m not so sure on your thoughts about that. Do you think it’s absolutely important for one to at some point, consider themselves a Buddhist?

[00:17:12] Ray Choo: If it motivates them to take refuge and behave like a Buddhist. If that motivates them to do it, then yes. Then identify to your heart’s content. You’re committing to being a good human being in a skillful Buddhist way, and there’s nothing shameful about it. But I totally understand, you know, I grew up in Singapore as well, and I know till today there’s this huge cultural and social taboo. Like you don’t speak up about religion, right? Even some of my dear friends, very dear friends, I told them, Hey I’ve made a documentary about Buddhism. Here’s the link. Till today they have not seen it, you know, ’cause it’s religion.

So, I absolutely get the hesitance to be open about it that way. But as a Buddhist now, of course I’d be skillful. You have to see what’s the context. But I think in Europe, I’m kind of lucky in the sense that Buddhism has a good rep in a way. They see it as something more progressive and scientific. So there’s no baggage, so that’s lucky for me. But I do see the difficulties in the Asian context, in Singapore. When I took refuge, even my mom, her first reaction was, Oh, are you joining a cult?

[00:18:14] Kai Xin: Oh, interesting. But she was the one who brought you to temples, right?

[00:18:18] Ray Choo: That’s a strange thing, right? I think that’s a strange thing. In Singapore, we see temples, we see statues, but again, it’s familiar, but very foreign. Just because of this taboo thing, we don’t talk about it. It’s like Harry Potter and Voldemort, right? Like, he who shall not be named, we don’t talk about it. And I think with time, you sort of lose that connection to what it’s actually meant for, the functions and its meaning, its purpose. I think that’s also why young adults lose interest in Buddhism, right? Because it’s sort of in your face, but I don’t really know what it is, so I reject it because I don’t understand it. It’s purpose, it’s place in my life sort of got pushed into a very private thing. And what do we do in our private lives? We go to shopping malls and whatever we do.

So it’s very neglected. And I think that’s part of the development of modernization, right? You have the separation of secularity where religion or faith gets boxed into a very private thing. In terms of practicing Buddhism, for example, you lose connection to this tradition, I think.

[00:19:18] Kai Xin: What if someone says that, I can call myself spiritual rather than identifying with any religion because as a spiritual person, I mean, the definition is to seek out for the truth, right? It’s pretty much quite similar. You believe that there’s something beyond the self and you want to improve your own wellbeing and reach your fullest potential, et cetera. Then, would it be okay to call myself spiritual rather than religious or Buddhist?

[00:19:44] Ray Choo: Well, in the Buddhist point of view, anything’s okay. As long as, it puts you in the right view and right motivation. But, when I was younger, I was one of those people that said, Oh, I’m spiritual, I’m not religious. But I think it’s somehow a complicated thing as well. I found this out when I was doing research for the documentary. We have to be aware that they’re very modern terms. This split from religion and spirituality, it’s an academic split that came from the 90s.

[00:20:14] Kai Xin: Oh, so recent?

[00:20:15] Ray Choo: Yeah, very recent. Because they’ve been trying to define religion for many years. And then there’s this split where religion is something pertaining to God, right? It’s something that the worshiper worships externally to a higher being. And spirituality, which is I guess the rest. It includes Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, where it’s about the individual inward looking to find the sacred within. So that’s the definition of these two. And just briefly about religion. I think for any Buddhist or anyone interested in religion, there’s this scholar called Karen Armstrong, very erudite, very eloquent scholar. She wrote, there are many kinds of definitions about religion, right? And I think she put it in a very succinct way.

Religion is an art. You know, religion and scriptures, it’s an art. But art doesn’t mean that it’s not true. It doesn’t mean that it’s just fluff. Karen Armstrong, she says, in the pre-modern world, before modernity, there are two sort of ways of thinking. You have the mythological way and the logical way, Logos. Logos is where science is really good at, rationality, measurements, description of reality. But you have also mythos. I think some academics also try to remove it, but you really can’t. This superstition or emotional, irrational part of the human consciousness. That’s why we have so many legends, so many myths, right?

That’s like pre-modern psychology. And so we have to recognize that. The term for religion as a concept, as a modern invention, it started late 17th century, 18th century. So if you look in Greek or Latin, there’s no equivalent for the word religion. Like maybe Latin credo is I believe, but originally it’s called cordo, so to give your heart to something. So religion was never really about proclaiming I believe in whatever. It’s about giving your heart, committing to something. So this commitment, this action. Karen Armstrong defined it as a program of action. Religion, spirituality, it’s something that you work at. So it’s a practice. And I think we have to recognize that. And I think back in my youth when I was saying, Oh, I’m spiritual. I think it came from also the idea that… so we’ve got actual definitions, right? But I think back then I didn’t notice those definitions. And for me, and I think for many people, religion is something about control and it’s something backward and spirituality is like I get to decide what I want.

[00:22:46] Kai Xin: Yeah it feels more fluid. Cause religion kind of puts you in a box, right? It feels like you have to be obligated to do certain rituals, abide by the rules. And then it can be quite suffocating for some people, especially the younger generations who like to rebel and own their personality, like activism and rights and all of these, like a freedom of expression.

[00:23:07] Ray Choo: That’s kind of funny. But in a way, instead of I reject that box, I put myself in another box, spirituality.

[00:23:13] Kai Xin: That is true.

[00:23:15] Ray Choo: But I can definitely relate. I think everyone have had that stage in life where we went, let’s tear down the old and make something new, that notion we can all relate to. In the sense that the grass is always greener, right? I’ll adopt something different and call it my own. I guess it’s part of the consumer culture thing. We are so good at picking and choosing, I get to cherry pick. I decide what is useful for me, which is good in some sense, you work out what you need. But I think it’s easy to lose a sense of reverence for something that has thousands of years of human history and human lives working at it. Right? Who are we to just say, no, I can do better. I think it’s like arrogance of youth.

[00:23:52] Kai Xin: I don’t necessarily agree with that because the Buddha actually set out in search for the truth because he was like, yeah, there must be something better out there.

[00:24:00] Ray Choo: Yes, yes. He also set out in search for truth in terms of also rebelling against what he had. So this disruption is necessary. Well, at least the way I did when I was younger, like saying I’m spiritual, it is a disruption, but it’s not skillful. You know, it’s like…

[00:24:16] Kai Xin: I get what you mean.

[00:24:18] Ray Choo: I rejected, but I don’t do anything, I don’t have a good alternative to it you know. Instead I’m just at the doors and looking for other doors. That was the state I was in.

[00:24:29] Kai Xin: Right? Yeah. Thanks for clarifying that because I know some people also do see Buddhism as like a religion. And some people say like, no, it’s not a religion because we don’t believe in like the ultimate creator. And it’s really more of like a practice, an inner journey, an inner search. But then we do have rituals as a means to help us kind of still our mind and also cultivate wisdom. So I would say you’re right to say that sometimes when we put ourself in a box, it becomes problematic because there are just certain things that goes beyond logic and you can’t really use all these conventions and words to describe. But the focus is the same, right? You mentioned commitment many times. Like what makes us Buddhists or why is it important for us to call ourselves Buddhists? It’s only when it motivates us to act like one, which is do good, avoid evil, and purify the mind. And the benefit of that is you get a better life and people around you also get a better life because you are an improved version of yourself, like 2.0 or 3.0.

[00:25:32] Ray Choo: Yeah. So you can also argue that, Buddhism itself is a box. But this box is a beautiful box. It has a very beautiful destination, you know? Like provisionally it’s as helpful. Like anything, like any label. Labels are labels, but if that label helps you to be a better Buddhist, to be a better person, then by all means, right? If it opens up wisdom, if it makes you be wiser, kinder, then it is helpful and it is skillful. Yeah.

[00:26:00] Kai Xin: Yeah. And they also say to cross to the other shore, which is to attain Nibbana, ultimately, we also have to let go of that box or like the raft.

[00:26:08] Ray Choo: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:26:09] Kai Xin: Right. The very fetter that binds us to the cycle of birth and death is wanting to become or not wanting to become. And that form of self, like I am, this is mine. Sometimes it feels like a paradox, but it’s also very beautiful because it’s exactly that, that the journey of the practice evolves. So from not having a label to finding importance of identifying with a label and then seeing the benefits and then slowly letting that go. Yeah. And it’s not a linear thing.

[00:26:40] Ray Choo: No, exactly not. I think that’s also the thing about the modern mind, right? We’d like to see everything from point A to B, or just have things very simplified, or in bullet form. But, you know, I think Buddhism sort of speaks to people, because we’re all at different levels, right? And we always talk about how the Buddha has 84,000 methods because we are all at different stages of our mind, and we all have different needs.

[00:27:04] Kai Xin: So it’s not linear and everyone has a very different path, but the conventional destination is the same, which is to be free. So I hope this episode and this conversation does bring our audience some clarity and whether is it important to identify yourself as a Buddhist or not, it’s really up to you. Do you have any final advice for our listeners?

[00:27:28] Ray Choo: Yeah, I think for people who have hangups about taking refuge, I think there’s also this fear of commitment and fear of losing freedom. But, I think taking refuge, you have to ask yourself, how do you define freedom? Is watching Netflix your idea of freedom? And just investigate, find out what taking refuge actually means. For anyone who’s curious or interested in Buddhism, it’s fine to read books and stuff to gather knowledge. But I think ultimately it’s something you have to do. You have to walk it. You can learn, you can read all about swimming. But never touching water, then there’s a big disconnect, right? You have to jump into the pool and get wet, you know…

[00:28:03] Kai Xin: and you have to struggle first. Yeah. I know some people, they have the concept like, I can’t meditate, you know, my mind is restless. I can’t call myself a Buddhist. I’m not cut out for meditation or I still like to drink. I sometimes break the precepts. So nah, I can’t commit.

[00:28:17] Ray Choo: Yeah. And I think we have to remind ourselves that the Buddha didn’t just achieve all that in one lifetime, right? He spent many lifetimes, aeons, to get to that point. And we are all trying in our imperfect ways to follow his footsteps. My teacher always reminds us, just relax and do your best to just bring your mind back to what is important. All that elaboration, just drop it. Just focus.

[00:28:41] Kai Xin: Yeah, that’s very beautiful.

[00:28:43] Ray Choo: And I guess the final word for anyone who’s still wondering, just know that the time is now. And I wish I’ve done it earlier in life when I’m younger. I could memorize more things. There’s so much to learn now. I wish I could learn this when I’m in a younger mind. Yeah. So yeah, the time is now. If you’re wondering, if you’re curious, just take it.

[00:29:02] Kai Xin: Thank you for sharing. Very beautiful. So we covered a lot about what it means to be a Buddhist and the historic journey and transformation of how we came to be, how spirituality and religion became so prevalent as two words.

But it’s actually only very recently that these are kind of introduced to us from the academic standpoint. So that was interesting. And whether is it really important to call yourself a Buddhist? You the listeners can share with us in the comment section below. And thank you so much, Ray for sharing. For our listeners and audience, if you want to check out the documentary Waking Up 2050, can they find us online?

[00:29:43] Ray Choo: No, not yet. But I think soon there’ll be an opportunity to see it again online.

[00:29:47] Kai Xin: Okay, fantastic. And we’ll keep our audience posted.

[00:29:51] Ray Choo: Definitely.

[00:29:51] Kai Xin: All right. And until the next episode, may you stay happy and wise. Thank you.

[00:29:56] Ray Choo: Thank you.

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