Ep 60: The $200M Entrepreneur Who Meditates 2 Hours a Day ft. Ying Cong

Ep 60: The $200M Entrepreneur Who Meditates 2 Hours a Day ft. Ying Cong

https://youtu.be/RQl0yPGC9ho


Summary

Startup founder Ying Cong shares his journey of building Glints while applying Buddhist teachings to navigate the intense emotional highs and lows of entrepreneurship. He reflects on lessons in generosity, impermanence, and leadership through real-life challenges like layoffs and PR crises. His story reveals how Dhamma helps reframe success and suffering in business.


About the Speaker

👤 Ying Cong is a long-time meditator and the co-founder of Glints, a leading career platform in Southeast Asia. Over the past decade, he helped scale the company from an idea incubated by JFDI to a regional startup featured in major publications like The Straits Times and Yahoo News. As Glints’ former CTO and current machine learning engineer, he has worked on recommender systems, fraud detection, and data infrastructure—though he jokes that most of it is just “glorified data cleaning.”

His Dhamma journey began in his teenage years and continues to deepen through regular meditation, observing the precepts, and periods of monastic training in the Thai forest tradition. He is quietly exploring how to balance the responsibilities of lay life with the path of practice.


Key Takeaways

Meditation as a Leadership Tool

Regular practice helped Ying Cong stay grounded during stressful moments, including public controversies and internal crises.

The Power of Giving

Practicing generosity, even during financial strain, builds deeper trust and personal growth, dismantling ego-based attachment to money.

Everything is Impermanent

From funding offers to core team members, Ying Cong learns firsthand how clinging leads to suffering—and why letting go brings freedom.

Transcript

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Ying Cong: Running a startup is like a compressed samsara on steroids because…

[00:00:05] Cheryl: Compressed samsara on steroids is the worst combination.

[00:00:09] Ying Cong: It’s very high, it’s very low.

[00:00:10] Cheryl: The gains and loss.

[00:00:11] Ying Cong: The gains and loss. Correct. Correct. The eight world winds actually shows up very strongly when you’re founder. Grew up as a very frugal and some might say stingy person.

[00:00:21] Ying Cong: Mm. Yeah. I still remember one of my friends… I think one day he just told me, Hey, actually you’re quite kiam siap, a weakness I have to work on, especially coming into contact with Buddhism, they talk a lot about giving, about dana, right? Giving, the joy of giving. And it’s not just about building good karma, it’s also about piercing that ego that you build up and letting it deflate a little bit when you give what is dear to you.

[00:00:50] Cheryl: Welcome to the Handful of Leaves podcast, a Southeast Asian platform sharing Buddhist wisdom for a happier life. My name is Cheryl, the host for today’s podcast, and my guest today is Ying Chong, who is the co-founder of Glints, a recruitment platform that has expanded to eight markets. Today we will be talking about how Ying Cong applies the Buddha’s teachings to grow and build a successful regional business.

[00:01:14] Cheryl: Let’s have Ying Cong introduce himself.

[00:01:17] Ying Cong: Hello. Thank you so much, Cheryl. Hi everyone. My name is Ying Chong. I’m one the co-founder of Glints. I started this company about 11 years ago now. We actually dropped out school to start this internship platform back then, and eventually it grew and right now we are one of the biggest job platforms in Indonesia, primarily.

[00:01:37] Ying Cong: We also have presences in Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, and a few other Southeast Asian markets. So for my role at Glints, I started off as a CTO at Glints but eventually I stepped down and I explored different roles within the company. So more recently I ran the Vietnam job marketplace and right now I’m also in charge of the machine learning operations within Glints.

[00:02:01] Ying Cong: As for Dharma, I was exposed quite young, when I was 10 years old. I still remember my uncle told me that you can see your past life if you meditate. So that was a hook and it got me, it got me addicted to this whole journey. And I also ordained as a Samanera for quite a few times when I was…

[00:02:20] Cheryl: what’s a Samanera?

[00:02:21] Ying Cong: Oh, I was a… it was a novice monk. Yeah. So you go there, you follow like 10 rules, 10 precepts and it just a 10 days kind of experience for you. So I did it a few times when I was in primary and secondary school. And then more recently I have been going for meditation retreats as well as pilgrimages with Cheryl actually, quite recently.

[00:02:42] Cheryl: And that’s how we recruited him to come on to today’s episode.

[00:02:45] Ying Cong: That’s right.

[00:02:47] Cheryl: So fast forward to today, Ying Chong was just sharing that he meditates two hours a day. Can you share with us how you… why do you prioritize meditation in your life and yeah, how do you find the time managing such a big business?

[00:03:02] Ying Cong: Yeah, so I was actually inspired on the pilgrimage by our teacher who brought us along — Ajahn Achalo. He is very big about the faith-based, way to approaching Buddhism and as well as making aspirations at the different, Buddhist sites.

[00:03:10] Ying Cong: So one of my aspirations was to continue the daily meditation practice I have but to step it up a little bit even more. So, I gave myself the goal to meditate 600 hours before my next birthday, which is…

[00:03:33] Cheryl: 600 hours. Wow.

[00:03:35] Ying Cong: About two hours per day if you do the math. Yeah. So that’s, that was, that was when I made that aspiration. And it is honestly… it is not easy, right? So for me, I do it a little bit before I go to work, about half an hour, 20 minutes, then one and a half hours after I come back from work. So that is how I try to fit it in. Mm.

[00:03:57] Cheryl: Your commitment and dedication is really inspiring. Could you perhaps share with us a time where meditation has helped you in a very pivotal moment managing Glints?

[00:04:07] Ying Cong: Mm, well, it’s only been a month since I made the aspiration, right? So we shall see. But I’ve been meditating fairly regularly since about five years ago, about halfway through my journey at Glints.

[00:04:20] Ying Cong: And I would say, I mean, it just helped me, like throughout the whole journey, a lot of very stressful moments as well as any good moments, right? You learn not to.. You learn not to attach to them. So there was a very particular… I remember there was a very particular PR crisis that happened to us about three, four years ago.

[00:04:41] Ying Cong: That was actually very, very stressful for the management team and the meditation practice actually helped me just very gently in the background. Right. So, as I explained earlier, we are a cross border hiring platform. So we have portals from different markets. So there was this one particular company, there was an Indonesian company.

[00:05:01] Ying Cong: They were hiring in Indonesia, actually, but they mis-listed their job listing in Singapore. Right. So it showed up in our Singapore portal. A Singaporean candidate applied for it, and this employer thinking that this candidate is not suitable, he just added a very blunt rejection reason. Say, no Singaporeans allowed. He thought it was a, he thought was a rejection reason that only the system can see, but actually we sent it to a candidate.

[00:05:27] Cheryl: Oh no.

[00:05:28] Ying Cong: And you must keep in mind that this was near the general elections period where there was this hot topic of foreign talent, right. And Singaporean is keeping their jobs here.

[00:05:39] Cheryl: That’s such bad timing.

[00:05:40] Ying Cong: Yeah, it was a terrible timing. So this, this candidate was super pissed off. he posted it on Reddit. Mm. And it initially was, it was fine. Like a few employees saw it and they flagged out to the management team. And as a management team, as a startup, you are always stretched, you’re always out of time, out of resources. So initially we didn’t really take it too seriously, right?

[00:06:07] Ying Cong: But then this thread started gaining some traction on Reddit. People started saying, oh, Glints is such a, you know, such a… is funded by Singaporeans right? But why is it not supporting Singaporeans? So this kind of comments started coming up, and eventually our CEO had to address it to the whole company.

[00:06:25] Ying Cong: But then understandably back then when he first addressed in the company he was slightly dismissive about it because you can imagine from his point of view, he’s trying to raise money. He trying to get a company to survive for the next round. And then this thing from Reddit came about. Mm. So he thought, okay, this is like a small thing, right?

[00:06:43] Ying Cong: We can just let it pass. We know that it’s, it is not our fault. Mm. Right. But then it started getting bigger and bigger. The fire started burning, so people started sharing that on their social media, on Facebook, on Instagram, and our employees flag it up to us again, this time with more like, more worry.

[00:07:02] Ying Cong: And I felt like, okay, this summer we really have to address it and address it the right way. So during all hands, I first of all apologized for the management team’s response in the first instance. And then we quickly got together a team to do that, coordinate the whole PR effort. So we contacted the candidate, apologized.

[00:07:22] Ying Cong: We also put out a statement. It was like a whole overnight thing that we did. And eventually it managed to get resolved. Mm. Right. But then, my reflection learning from the whole experience was that, you know, when you are running a company, a lot of things that happen to your company, you feel like it’s not your fault.

[00:07:40] Ying Cong: Mm. But you really do have to address it. You can’t ignore it. And a very short while later, when I reflect on this whole incident, I realized, oh, actually it’s a little bit like meditation. Hmm. Where, you know, sometimes a little bit of suffering comes up or some craving comes up. Right. And my tendency is to ignore it.

[00:07:58] Ying Cong: Mm-hmm. Like to look away from that suffering. But then when you look away then the suffering can still proliferate. Mm, yeah. So that was like a very interesting analogy that I saw from this incident where, oh, you have to sort of look straight at it, don’t flinch away, and then sort of address it in the wisest way you think is possible.

[00:08:18] Cheryl: It reminds me of the very famous quote, whatever you resist, will just keep persisting.

[00:08:23] Ying Cong: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Whatever you resist, persist, right? Mm. Yeah. Is exactly the same.

[00:08:27] Cheryl: And that’s what meditation helps us with, right? To really train our attention to go to the root cause of our suffering. Correct. And then finding the right way to address it.

[00:08:37] Ying Cong: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So it applies internally and in a company setting, it also applies externally to a bigger group of people. Yeah.

[00:08:45] Cheryl: So I’m curious. After, after the whole PR crisis. How, I guess, how has your company rebuilt its reputation?

[00:08:55] Ying Cong: Hmm. So that’s the tricky thing about reputation. It, it gets… it takes a long time to build and just a day to get destroyed. And thankfully we contained the situation. Mm-hmm. It didn’t go too far beyond those few people who were posting on social media and then the Reddit, the poster eventually agreed to take it down. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:16] Ying Cong: So that was contained, but within those people who knew about it, I mean, you then have to spend the next few years doing the right thing to rebuild it again. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So. That is the hard truth about reputation. Yeah.

[00:09:28] Cheryl: Yeah. So easy to just break apart. Exactly. Exactly. And it takes years to build trust. Yeah.

[00:09:34] Ying Cong: Takes years to build. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:35] Cheryl: So I’ve come across your writings in the Handful of Leaves platform. Mm-hmm. And something very interesting that came up to me was the concept of giving.

[00:09:44] Ying Cong: Ah, yes. Yeah.

[00:09:45] Cheryl: You mentioned that, you know, givers experience the most joy. Yeah. And that’s almost counterintuitive in our normal corporate world today, where everyone’s about taking, getting ahead. Maybe you can share a personal story where choosing selfless giving in your business actually benefited you and your team.

[00:10:02] Ying Cong: Hmm. The reason why I picked that topic to write about in Handful of Leaves is because I grew up as a very frugal and some might say stingy person. Yeah. I still remember one of my friends, one day he just told me, “Hey, actually you’re quite kiam siap”. So I realized that was a weakness I have to work on, especially coming into contact with Buddhism.

[00:10:26] Ying Cong: They talk a lot about giving, about dana, right? Giving, the joy of giving, and it’s not just about building good karma, it’s also about piercing the ego that you build up and letting it deflate a little bit when you give what is dear to you. So, it is a really a lesson that I have to learn the hard way.

[00:10:43] Ying Cong: And Glints, I mean, in the beginning, I have to be honest, when I started this company, one of the big goals for me was financial freedom. Mm-hmm. Right? To build up a base of financial freedom for myself. But then we really quickly realized that if you want to build something meaningful and big and impactful, you need people to jump on board together with you. And for that to happen, you have to give. People who won’t work for someone who is not gonna give to them. Mm-hmm. Right? So that is just the basics of human relationship. I still remember it very clearly, this one incident during the COVID period.

[00:11:24] Ying Cong: This was the early period COVID, early 2020s, where people didn’t know what was gonna happen to the economy and everyone just froze up. Like the whole economy just froze up. Everybody stopped hiring. Mm. And we are a recruitment platform, so when people stop hiring, our businesses dried up and we very, very quickly realized we have to cut down our cost in order to survive.

[00:11:48] Ying Cong: So there was this very dreadful meeting, like I still remember where basically the whole management team sat down together. We say we had to cut our costs by this much. The biggest cost in most companies is the labor. Yep. Right? So we have this whole spreadsheet of everybody’s names and their salaries beside them.

[00:12:00] Cheryl: Oh, that gives me the jitters, because I have been through a layoff before and what he’s saying is scary.

[00:12:06] Ying Cong: Oh yes. Oh yeah, yeah. HR, right? So yes, HR was at the table too. Yeah. So basically we had to… each leader has to commit to cutting a certain amount of costs from their team and like basically letting go a certain number of team members from their team. Yeah. So me, I was running the engineering team back then as a CTO and also product and design.

[00:12:27] Ying Cong: So I also had to commit to a number of cuts. And there was this one designer, he was our designer lead back at the time, and he was one of our very early designers who really helped us in the beginning. But unfortunately part of that decision I had to let him go. And I remember I did a call with him.

[00:12:44] Ying Cong: He was based in the Philippines. It was a Zoom call and I told him the situation, right? And I say, we have to, you know, let you go. And at that moment he started crying. Mm, yeah, he started crying. He was very scared and very sad. And he told me that he, yeah, he has a new baby coming along the way, and maybe because of this situation, he has to move back to his hometown away from Manila, where the costs are lower.

[00:13:11] Ying Cong: And at that moment I didn’t know what to say. Right. So we ended a call very awkwardly back then. I said, yeah, I mean, sorry that this has to happen, but yeah. Sorry about this. And I ended the call. And then after I ended the call, there was a moment that I wanted to, you know, revert the decision and say, okay, we can keep you, right.

[00:13:32] Ying Cong: But then imagine, right, I already made a promise to my management team. We had that call, everyone has already made that decision, right? So it’s like a decision that we have to go through and it’s about how you can make it as easy as possible for this person. So, you know, we have a few conversations after that and eventually he agreed to go, but he also asked for an extra month of severance.

[00:13:56] Ying Cong: And then, as you know, in HR and also in our management team, they teach you never to give exceptions in this kind of situations to any employees because they will incur like unfairness and resentment in everyone else. So it’s a very difficult situation and I thought very long and hard about it. And I also meditated on it a little bit.

[00:14:13] Ying Cong: Eventually I decided to give him, but out of my own salary, right? So I told him, okay, I’ll give yeah, this one month, I understand your situation. But this, it is a personal favor, right? It’s not, it is not a company policy, right? And he said, yeah, thank you so much. I know it’s very hard, but it’s hard for all of us.

[00:14:32] Ying Cong: So eventually we parted on good terms and he managed to do well for himself. And actually a few years later he did rejoin us for a while as a designer again. Yeah. So that was very hard for me. Back then, I was so tight on money. We all took pay cuts as founders too. And for me, when growing up, money was a very scarce resource in my family.

[00:14:53] Ying Cong: So it was like a… it’s like a thing for me, like, to give up money. And so that was a difficult situation. Yeah. But eventually when I did that, I also instantly just felt more relieved. Yeah. For some reason I just felt relieved. I felt I did the right thing.

[00:15:08] Cheryl: Mm.

[00:15:08] Ying Cong: Yeah.

[00:15:08] Cheryl: What do you think you let go of from being someone who’s kiam siap –yeah, right, holding on tightly to the money — to taking out portion of your income when times are tough for you as well. What do you let go of?

[00:15:20] Ying Cong: Hmm. So one thing I realized is that money is a story that we tell ourselves, right? Back then when I was young, I thought it was a resource that we owned. But actually beyond being able to sustain, feed yourself, feed your family, have a place to stay, it is a story that we tell ourselves.

[00:15:37] Ying Cong: So the story I was telling is that money represented how well I doing, how safe I feel in life, how much status I have. Right? There was a story I told myself at the beginning of Glints. Then I have to let it go. Right. Still had to let it go.

[00:15:51] Ying Cong: I started to see, okay, that actually that’s not true. Right. You can, you save in other ways and then sometimes, yeah, people don’t really ask you how much you have in your bank account. It’s not like you’re gonna stop next month also right, for a lot of us.

[00:16:05] Ying Cong: So I began to let go of the story and when you let go the story, then things like this become easier. Oh, this is a story. I can, yeah, it’s fine if I give like a portion of my salary. Right. It’s fine. Yeah.

[00:16:16] Cheryl: Oh, that’s really beautiful.

[00:16:19] Ying Cong: Thank you.

[00:16:19] Cheryl: And initially you also shared that when you wanted to create something meaningful, you have to bring people on board. Yes. And that’s by giving? Yes. So what does “meaning” mean to you now? After this 11 years journey with Glints and… 11 years and ongoing.

[00:16:37] Ying Cong: Oh yeah. And ongoing. It never ends. It’s like Samsara.

[00:16:40] Cheryl: Oh no.

[00:16:42] Ying Cong: Yeah. Oh yes. Okay. So that has been a huge transformation for me. I always joke with my co-founder because he’s also a Buddhist. Ah, yeah. And I joke with him that running a startup is like a compressed samsara on steroids because…

[00:17:00] Cheryl: Compressed samsara on steroids, that’s the worst combination.

[00:17:03] Ying Cong: …there’s so much pain and pleasure and it’s very high, it’s very low.

[00:17:07] Cheryl: The gains and loss.

[00:17:08] Ying Cong: The gains and loss. Correct, correct. The eight worldly winds actually shows up very strongly when you’re founder.

[00:17:14] Ying Cong: Mm. And people join you, but people also leave, and this also happens on a very compressed timeline. So in the beginning, when I first started Glints, what it meant for me partly was what I mentioned earlier, right? The financial stability, the financial freedom it can grant me. Mm. And of course I have dreams of becoming someone of status within the tech community.

[00:17:38] Ying Cong: So that was my initial founding motivation. Not the noblest or brightest, but that was honestly how I started. And then very quickly you realize, okay, those things, first of all, they don’t come that easily. Mm. Right. And even if they came, they also go away quite quickly. Mm. Right. I remember when we were running the business, we bootstrapped it for the first few years, and then all of a sudden there was this CIO from a competitor firm, I shan’t name, but they are a much bigger firm in our space. And then they, he came…

[00:18:07] Cheryl: Was it blue?

[00:18:11] Ying Cong: (laughing) So yes, he came and he basically had a few conversations with us, coffee chats. Mm-hmm. And then suddenly at the end of those coffee chats, he asked, you know, you guys seem to be doing something quite promising. What if I give you a few million dollars, like two or $3 million?

[00:18:27] Ying Cong: And then, you know, back then we were so poor, right? So my co-founder kicked me under the table and was like, yeah, don’t say anything.

[00:18:34] Cheryl: Go for it!

[00:18:35] Ying Cong: And then , we tried to hold ourselves and be serious, right? But after he left, we just like, whoa, banging the wall. Okay. We made it. wow, that’s the most money that we ever seen in our whole life.

[00:18:48] Cheryl: And that’s the ultimate success in the startup world, right? Yeah. Bought out by someone else.

[00:18:51] Ying Cong: Correct. Correct. Correct. Yeah. And then we were so happy we thought we made it. And then at the next meeting he ghosted to us. That’s why I didn’t wanna name the company. He ghosted to us. He didn’t reply our calls. He didn’t show up anymore for our meeting. And that was it. Just like that. Oh, so…

[00:19:12] Cheryl: Wow. Your hopes are just dashed.

[00:19:13] Ying Cong: Yeah, just dashed immediately. Ah, yeah. So in that few… and this all happened over one week. Yeah. So in that one week we saw that whole… this whole thing, right? Where you had this gain that you thought you had, and then it was immediately lost and it was just so painful and it’s so obvious to me, how fickle all these things were.

[00:19:30] Ying Cong: Mm. Right. So that was in the beginning, right? So it was about fame, a little bit of money. But then eventually I started to build a team and I started building very strong relationships with the team. And at that point in time, this is about like four, five years in, right?

[00:19:44] Ying Cong: I thought, okay, because maybe this, the startup is about the relationships that you built along with you, the people around you. And I started forming very strong, close relationship. I treated them like family almost. Mm. So, that was my middle phase. And then eventually I realized no matter how well you treat people, eventually they will still leave.

[00:20:05] Ying Cong: Mm-hmm. Yeah. They’ll leave your company, and for different reasons. Right. Sometimes it’s mistakes that you made as a manager sometimes because the company’s not going the direction they want, you’re not providing the growth they need, and sometimes it’s just impermanence. Mm-hmm. They just need to leave because they have been here for too long.

[00:20:21] Ying Cong: Yeah. And when, at first, when a few of these core members started leaving, I felt very impacted. Because this was my family. Mm-hmm. And this was the meaning of why I was building this startup. Mm. But then I realized, okay, maybe this what the Buddha meant. Mm. Even the most… with the noblest of intentions, with the biggest of efforts, things that you treasure will still leave you.

[00:20:42] Ying Cong: Mm. And this was the case in the middle phase. I realized, ah, eventually, eventually, all of the core team that I build up in that phase after three to four to five years, all of them left. All of them left except for the few founders, and new people came in.

[00:20:57] Ying Cong: And I realised, okay, well this, I thought this was a very… higher level of meaning, right? Compared to money to the fame, but even this was impermanent. Even this was impermanent. And now I’m into the third phase now where I see everything just changing. Mm-hmm. And you do your best in that situation. There are some things that are still durable in a business. Right. Like your customer relationships, like your brand reputation, that last longer in the context of a human lifetime.

[00:21:23] Ying Cong: Mm-hmm. But you have to keep reminding — eventually they will still fade away. Right. So you try to do this in a way to develop yourself. Also, you treat it as a vehicle to develop your giving. For me it was part of that your sort of impact to the world. Right. So it’s more like a training and those kind of qualities, they tend to stay with you longer than money, than people. Yeah.

[00:21:46] Cheryl: This really reminds me of the sutta, the noble and ignoble search sutta where the Buddha say, why bother — i’m not quoting like exactly, but — why bother searching for things that are liable to break down, liable to, you know, impermanence. Yeah. Why not search for things that, you know, go beyond the deathless, go beyond the cycle of Samsara, the deathless.

[00:22:10] Ying Cong: Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct. That was, that was actually, yeah, it took many years of pain to actually see what the Buddha is talking about in that sutta, right. In the beginning, I was exposed to Dhamma and I did it firstly for the past life psychic power. And then in the middle it was like, maybe the jhanas are very nice and samadhi is very nice and can maybe help you with your worldly life.

[00:22:35] Ying Cong: Right? With my school, with concentration. And then you start to experience all this, like you really just put your best effort and try to hold things right, like people, and they still leave and you’re, oh, okay, yeah, maybe there was something else. Yeah. And I think that’s what the Buddha was pointing to.

[00:22:51] Cheryl: That’s where you start to develop the wisdom to see things as they are. That’s really nothing that can be satisfactory in things that are just liable to change and break down.

[00:22:59] Ying Cong: Exactly. Exactly. And there’s this phase where I was actually quite burnt out. I was quite burnt out. I didn’t know why , I was just feeling a bit down. And I realized it because, you know, life just doesn’t give you what you want.

[00:23:17] Cheryl: And the problem with it is we delude ourselves into finding different objects and hoping the same thing, that it won’t change.

[00:23:24] Ying Cong: Yes, yes, yes. But after a while we see the pattern.

[00:23:26] Cheryl: Yeah. Then like, ah, shit, the Buddha is still the genius.

[00:23:29] Ying Cong: There’s no running out of this samsara. Yeah. There’s no getting permanent satisfaction.

[00:23:34] Ying Cong: Yeah.

[00:23:35] Cheryl: But yes, saddhu. I really loved how you find meaning now, which is to find a way to treat everything that you experience as a way to develop and train yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Which is much more lasting and beneficial for you as well.

[00:23:48] Ying Cong: Yes, yes.


Resources:

Ying Cong’s article on giving: https://handfulofleaves.life/how-seeking-to-balance-everything-nearly-cost-me-my-relationship/


Special thanks to our sponsors:

Buddhist Youth Network, Lim Soon Kiat, Alvin Chan, Tan Key Seng, Soh Hwee Hoon, Geraldine Tay, Venerable You Guang, Wilson Ng, Diga, Joyce, Tan Jia Yee, Joanne, Suñña, Shuo Mei, Arif, Bernice, Wee Teck, Andrew Yam, Kan Rong Hui, Wei Li Quek, Shirley Shen, Ezra, Joanne Chan, Hsien Li Siaw, Gillian Ang, Wang Shiow Mei, Ong Chye Chye, Melvin, Yoke Kuen, Nai Kai Lee, Amelia Toh, Hannah Law, Shin Hui Chong


Editor of this episode:

Aparajita Ghose

Website: aparajitayoga.com


Transcriber of this episode:

Tan Si Jing, Bernice Bay


Visual and Sound Effects

Anton Thorne, Tan Pei Shan, Ang You Shan


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What can potato chips teach us about loving without attachment?

What can potato chips teach us about loving without attachment?

TLDR: To love and care without attachment, one must let go and realise that nothing is truly ours.

“I discovered a great spiritual example at the supermarket!” declared Āyasmā Rāhula on a cold rainy night in December.

I was at the Singapore Buddhist Mission on a Wednesday night for a special dhamma talk by the Mexican-born, Burmese-ordained monastic.

He was giving a talk titled, “How do we care and love without attachment?”.

We often learn that to attach is to set ourselves up for eventual dissatisfaction. So is it possible to care and love without attachment?

I’d previously been exposed to Bhante Rāhula from a YouTube video shared with me by a dear friend from RainbodhiSG and was delighted to discover that he was similarly animated in real life as he was online.

At the start of the talk, he told us to put on spiritual safety belts, for he was going to take us on a journey that might get a little rocky.

His talk was divided into 3 main parts.

Mettā and letting go of my crushes

He began by exploring what mettā (translated into English as “loving-kindness”) was.

The characteristic of mettā is to promote the welfare of all living beings, he explained.

Mettā’s function is to prefer for the welfare of others and oneself. Its manifestation is the removal of ill will

Finally, the proximate cause of mettā is to see beings as lovable, and not have selfish affection.

Love, he continues, makes you feel content. Attachment, however, makes you suffer.

That struck a chord.

All my crushes were causing great suffering.

I had to let them go. If nothing else, I think I had already benefited from the first third of the talk.

An analogy might be in order.

Imagine a girl holding a heavy sack of rice weighing about 5kg. For a long time, she carries it around wherever she goes. This sack of rice is precious to her. Even though it weighs her down, she holds it close. Eventually her arms get tired. She reluctantly puts it on the ground. She lets it go.

I was that girl. My crush was that sack of rice.

In my mind, I laid the sack of rice down, my crush, on the ground. 

I was fine with or without her.

It was alright.

This mental letting go felt freeing. A weight lifted. My mind was lighter. Clearer.

Of course, this letting go is a continual process. For the default action is to hold the sack of rice close to the chest. The girl has done it for so long, that is her natural state of being. Every time she is aware, she puts the sack of rice down, she lets it go.

So it is with my mind. Again and again and again, I make a mental shift, and there is a felt sense in my mind to let the crush go.

He told us that with attachment to a person often comes worry and jealousy leading one to exert control over the other, and ultimately violence, whether verbal or physical toward the other party.

I recalled breaking up with my very first girlfriend mainly because I felt very suffocated due to the extent of control she was exerting over me.

Letting go, Bhante explains, helps both you and your partner to be free.

Freedom. That’s what so many of us seek.

The difference between desire and attachment

The excellent spiritual example Bhante Rāhula discovered at the supermarket went a bit like this.

Imagine we wanted to eat some potato chips. We go to the supermarket and pick out a bag, sour cream and onion potato chips. We put it into our shopping basket and proceed to the checkout.

At this point, is the potato chip ours? 

No, it belongs to the supermarket.

If we were to rip open the bag to eat the potato chips, the security guard would reprimand us and tell us to pay before consuming the product.

At the checkout, the cashier smiles at us and begins scanning the items we have picked out at the supermarket.

At this point, as she scans the items, do the potato chips belong to us?
Nope.

They still belong to the supermarket.

Finally, after the scanning is done, we pay with our card. 

Beep.

Now, the potato chips belong to us.

If the cashier decides to open the bag of chips and eat it, you’d probably yell at her and say, “Hey! That’s mine!”

That is the difference between desire and attachment.

Before payment, the potato chips was just something we wanted. After payment, the potato chips became “MINE”. Attached to me.

Desire is when something is just a feeling, a want of a project, a thing, or a person. When it transforms into attachment, we then think, in our mine that this project, this thing, this person – “IT IS MINE”, when it really isn’t.

In a split second, after we pay for the potato chips, it is “MINE”.

Wow.

I then began to realise that often, it is an unconscious process in day-to-day life when projects, things, or people, unwittingly switch from being a desire to an attachment, especially when it is brought into our sphere of influence.

It is important to realise, that nothing is truly ours. We are all, as my favourite Buddhist author, Thich Nhat Hanh says, Interbeing, or interconnected. If we learn to dissolve our sense of self, we will then realise that nothing truly belongs to us. We might be given stewardship for some time, but people don’t belong to us, things don’t belong to us, for after we die, they cannot be taken with us.

Awareness is the first step to letting go.

Once we are aware, we begin to see how silly it is to cling so tightly to the objects of our attachment. And then, our vice-like grip on them begins to loosen.

(Dear Reader, I think I will never forget this because I actually LOVE potato chips and have often entered supermarkets with the sole intention of buying a bag or two. This is the beauty of spiritual metaphors. Indelibly etched into my brain.)

Antidotes

He gave a list of various antidotes from cultivating self-love, being aware of anicca (impermanence), and developing healthy boundaries.

I’ll elaborate on the one that made the most impact to me.

Firstly, he said we need to cultivate independence. 

We did a little role-playing. He told us to ask him, “Bhante, are you worried about your business projects?”

Seated in the first row, I gamely asked him, “Bhante are you worried about your business projects?”

He smiled and said enthusiastically, “No, because I have no business projects!”

A chorus of laughter.

Then, he told me to ask him, “Bhante are you worried about your dog?”

Grinning, I asked, “Bhante are you worried about your dog?”

Chuckling, he said, “No, because I have no dog!”

And we went on, until he quipped at the end of this exchange, “The person who has nothing, worries about absolutely nothing.”

The room roared with laughter at his pun that hit so unexpectedly close to the bone.

But responding compassionately to a question, he wisely pointed out that instead of losing our houses, relationships and children, when we let go, we actually don’t lose anything at all. We upgrade our house and our relationships. For they are now free. 

It is not my home, it is a home I am grateful to be living in.

It is not my children, they are children I have the privilege of caring for, and when they grow up, they are not mine, they lead their own lives and I can be their kalyanamitta (spiritual friend).

Next, he reminded us of the importance of developing self-love so as not to seek validation from others.

Q&A

After the main talk was over, he took questions in a short question-and-answer session.

My hand shot up and I asked him how we should balance the tension between working on projects, and being lazy by “letting them go”.

His answer was wise and blew my mind.

We need to let go of expectations of how our projects will turn out, but if the projects are good projects, we should definitely put our heart into it.

How does one know if one’s working on something good?

Glad you asked.


Projects that brought about monetary benefit were alright for they provided for oneself and one’s family, and can be donated for the propagation of the dhamma. 

Perhaps your regular day job as an administrative staff, or a carpenter is like that. It brings monetary benefit for you, allows you to support your family, and allows you to periodically offer dana to sangha members.

He continued by explaining that projects that bring about monetary benefit, and benefits others, that was even better. For it helped others. An example of this would be your job as a nurse, an educator, or a civil servant. It not only provides a monthly income for daily living, but also allows you to benefit your patient, your student, or the general public. That is even better.

Finally, he said that projects that bring about monetary benefits, benefits others, and brings about spiritual growth. Ah, those were the best projects to participate in. 

Perhaps you are inclined to write an innovative book about the dhamma after hours of poring over scripture or code a mobile phone app dedicated to the propagation of the Dhamma for a small profit, and giving a percentage of the proceeds to your favourite temple. In this way, not only do you manage to earn a living, if you are a writer or a software engineer, it benefits others, and also brings about spiritual growth for yourself and others.

I thanked him for his answer and was most grateful.

Conclusion

I am most grateful to the Singapore Buddhist Mission for organising this talk by Bhante Āyasmā Rāhula and look forward to attending future dhamma-sharing sessions there.

WW: 🏳️Reached a dead end? A monk advises us on giving up.

WW: 🏳️Reached a dead end? A monk advises us on giving up.

Wholesome Wednesdays (WW): Bringing you curated positive content on Wednesdays to uplift your hump day.

You have placed your best effort. But the problems keep cascading in from all directions. Is this really the dead end? What can you do? Wasn’t this always the problem I have always tried to climb and solve? Giving up is tough, so knowing when to give up is key. Here are two stories to help you decide what’s best for you!

1. When obstacles come into your life, ask this question
2. It can be a great thing to give up.

When obstacles come into your life, ask this question

Cr: Unsplash

What’s going on here & Why we like it

Mingyur Rinpoche, a famous Tibetan Buddhist monk, shares on how we may meet obstacles and dead ends in our lives. By asking the question of whether we have a solution, it shapes our next steps to deal with the challenges that lie ahead of us. Solving the obstacle sometimes requires us to go around, above, or under it. It might even be our teacher.

“Letting go is not giving up. If you are going somewhere and you meet a dead end… what can you do?”

Wise Steps

  1. Letting go is not giving up, if you know whether you have the solutions. What obstacles should you let go of right now?
  2. What past obstacles have you overcome in the past? What have you learnt from them?

Check out the video here or below!

It can be a great thing to give up.

Cr: Unsplash

What’s going on here & why we like it

Tori Press, an Instagram Artist, shares her experience of giving up through illustrations of climbing a mountain. We love her personal sharing of her dad telling her not to give up and acknowledging how past goals don’t always correlate with our current goals.

Her simple analogy of climbing a mountain that you no longer have joy in climbing hits home hard as young working adults. We may wish for a promotion/ dream job/ dream partner only to realise it is not what we wanted. It is okay to acknowledge that things change and give up.

“This may not be the right path for me after all.”

Wise Steps

  1. Ask yourself, “What mountain are you still climbing that is no longer the right path for you?”

Read it here

#WW: 🧙🏻‍♂️Accepting feedback…Hogwarts style

#WW: 🧙🏻‍♂️Accepting feedback…Hogwarts style

Wholesome Wednesdays (WW): Bringing you curated positive content on Wednesdays to uplift your hump day.

When someone says that our work sucks, how do we feel? How can we better receive feedback when our work ain’t up to someone’s standard? We explore filtering feedback and improving our interactions with others. We also draw wisdom from Will Smith to show the other side of him beyond the slapping incident.

1. Filtering good and bad feedback like Harry Potter

2. Meeting someone for the last time

Filtering good and bad feedback like Harry Potter

Credits: The Tiny Wisdom

What’s going on here

Brian, from The Tiny Wisdom, uses Harry Potter’s interaction with Voldemort to teach us creative lessons on receiving feedback. This fun and creative comic strip covers ways we can better deal with feedback that we may not like. Sometimes, our best might not be enough for the world. Harry Potter teaches us how.

Why we like it

As we navigate through work-life, we often find our work being criticised or scrutinised. This can make us question our self-worth and quality of work. This is a nifty way to figure out whether the feedback should be taken or cast aside.

“When someone told you something about your work — good or bad — you ask them: why?”

Wise Steps

Taking feedback non-personally. We often attach strong ownership to our work and get emotional swings through praise or criticism. Building the feedback muscle makes us take a pause before engaging with the feedback.

Read the Harry Potter comics here

Read more on the science and art of receiving feedback here

Meeting someone for the last time

people standing on white round building during daytime
Unsplash

What’s going on here

Will Smith, a famous actor (also infamous now for the oscar slapping), shares one of the most important lessons he learnt and how he applies that to everyone he interacts with.

Why we like it

This video is short but impactful. It makes you think deeper about the relationships we hold and the way we interact with others.

“Tomorrow is not promised to any of us.”

Wise Steps

Try to greet every being as if it is the last time you meet them. Because tomorrow is not promised never go to bed hating someone or saying nasty things. Had an argument? Internalise, forgive, and re-engage with one another.

Enjoy the video here or below!


#WW: 👵🏻 Which part of you is living in the past?

#WW: 👵🏻 Which part of you is living in the past?

Wholesome Wednesdays (WW): Bringing you curated positive content on Wednesdays to uplift your hump day.

We often laugh at friends who do not know the latest trends/ Netflix movies/ social terms. However, we rarely think that we are ‘out-of-trend’. Today we explore how we can check on which part of us is still living in the past. To seek within and not outwards. Stay wise!

1. Are you operating on Windows 95?

2. Two monks carry a woman differently. What can we learn?

Are you operating on Windows 95?

flat screen computer monitor turned on
Unsplash

What’s going on here

Adam Grant, a famous writer who writes about work-life, shares a post about rethinking our opinions and views. We often laugh at others who are ‘outdated’ in the products, films, and services they use. However, we often miss looking in the mirror for the outdated opinions we hold.

Why we like it

Adam challenges us to look deeper by first forcing us to confront the values that we hold. His post provides a nice trigger for us to recollect on changing our views and even friendships to become a better version of ourselves!

“The best way to stay true to your values is to stay open to rethinking your views. What have you rethought lately?”

Wise Steps

Have a deep thought about what values you hold close to your heart. Is there a need to rethink them? What grudges do you hold that no longer serve you?

Read it here or below

Want to challenge your old beliefs? Grab his book here!

Two monks carry a woman differently. What can we learn?

body of water surrounded by trees
Unsplash

What’s going on here

Two monks meet a woman stranded at a raging river. The senior and junior monk makes their own decision on how to approach the lady. The video highlights clinging to form vs substance.

Why we like it

This short video makes us reflect on the principles behind why we walk the Buddhist path. To let go of our preconceptions of what is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ and focus on the present moment of what needs to be done.

“The junior monk was carrying the burden of what the senior monk had done as an emotional baggage”

Wise Steps

Does something ‘trigger’ you no matter what the person’s intention? Reflect on what you are clinging so much to that it is worth giving up your happiness for.

Enjoy the video here or below!

Want to learn more about the art of letting go? Venerable Ajahn Chah’s book Food for the Heart might help!