Ep 26: Can fear & shame pave the way to enlightenment?

Ep 26: Can fear & shame pave the way to enlightenment?

About our guest

Low Mi Yen, a clinical psychologist and one of Malaysia’s foremost proponents of the application of psychology, mindfulness and self-compassion, for individual, couple, family, workplace and community, for more than 27 years. Pioneered Employee Assistance Program (EAP) in Malaysia since 1999, providing corporate training, coaching, crisis intervention, psychotherapy, psychological assessment, lecturing and supervision, mindfulness and self-compassion interventions in enhancing resilience.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kai Xin:

Hi, welcome to another episode of the Handful Of Leaves podcast, where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life.

Is ignorance bliss?

You know, in the process of wanting to be a good person or being taught to be a good person, we learn how to identify right from wrong. And we are also reminded of moral conduct and standards and thus become increasingly cautious of our own actions, sometimes fearing the consequences or you’ll feel ashamed if we were to fall short.

So wouldn’t it actually be better if we remained ignorant? We’ll be happier, right? In this episode, we will talk about how the fear of wrongdoing and shame can actually lead us to peace. I know it sounds paradoxical, which is why we have our guest today Sister Miyen and also my co-host, Cheryl, to talk about this because we know fear and shame, they are very unpleasant feelings. So how is it possible that it can result in peace?

And is it really true that these mental qualities can pave the way to enlightenment?

A lot of big questions and this episode is going to be very educational. So without further ado, let’s dive right in.

Hi. Good to see you, sister Mi Yen. I’m joined with Cheryl to chat with you today.

[00:01:20] Sis Mi Yen:

Thanks for inviting me, Kai Xin and Cheryl, to join you in this wonderful series of podcasts with interesting topics to share with your listeners. So I’m actually very happy and excited to have the chat with you today.

[00:01:34] Kai Xin:

Yeah, definitely. Today’s subject is quite interesting because we’re gonna talk about fear and shame. And there is this term in the Buddhist scripture, which is Hirīottappa. We’re gonna unpack a lot of that to see where these two words fit into our life? Because I think in a religious context, we sometimes feel like, oh, I’m not a good enough Buddhist, I did something wrong. Then there’s the sense of shame and guilt, but it can get to a point where it’s not so beneficial and I personally in the past have a lot of misconceptions about it.

 Just for our listeners, a brief background about Sis Mi Yen, who’s on this podcast with us today. She’s a clinical psychologist who spent more than 27 years helping individuals, couples, families, to teach them how to be a better person, either in a form of leadership or in a form of managing crisis as well as emotion. She also does psychotherapy.

I do wanna start off this episode with our first question. You know, in our modern world, there are a lot of distractions and vices. I would say that a lot of people would agree that it’s quite challenging to be a good person, because sometimes, people shout at you, they do certain nasty things and the tendency is, oh, I wanna fight back, or I wanna hurt another person.

So how do we actually not be triggered by all these temptations or these responses and end up hurting others? How does Hirīottappa come into the picture, and this sense of fear and shame?

[00:03:03] Sis Mi Yen:

Like you said, we are not doing justice to our topic itself, especially these two very important mental qualities in our short podcast today. So I’ll try my best to unpack as much as I can. It is a difficult practice. Today I’m speaking more as a Buddhist practitioner rather than a professional psychologist. From the Buddhist perspective, I myself, personally, find that in our Buddhist teaching, Hirī and Ottappa, these are the twin mental qualities that are present in all of us. And these mental qualities, they are associated with skillful action. At times they’re referred to as the two superheroes that protect the world or the guardians of the world.

If you Google Hirī and Ottappa you’ll see all these words popping up. These are very important mental qualities. It actually helps us to make right choices in life. How do we act? How do we speak? How do we think? Hopefully, in a helpful, healthy, and skillful way for us to uphold ourself as a human being, especially our moral conduct and of course in Buddhist practice, the importance of keeping the precepts. So, these two mental qualities are huge. I’m not sure whether you would like me to delve into the definition because sometimes the definition itself can cause a lot of misunderstanding too.

[00:04:22] Kai Xin: I see Cheryl nodding her head. We would agree that it’s good to maybe just define what exactly is Hirī and what is Ottappa in short, and then we can slowly unpack and clear some of the wrong views or misconceptions.

[00:04:34] Sis Mi Yen:

Yes, Hirī refers to the inner conscience refraining us from doing deeds that would jeopardise our self-respect, honor and dignity as a human being. In a way it’s an inner ability to see unwholesomeness arising as shameful or wrong. This is where different terminology has been used to translate the Pali term Hirī. We have moral shame as one of the main one. But I think the English translation, moral shame is a bit tricky. I really like the ability to see unwholesomeness as shameful, our awareness of the value of human being.

Ottapa on the other hand, refers to a healthy fear of wrongdoings. I don’t want to do this unwholesome action because by doing this, I’m gonna bring harm to myself and others. That means the ability to actually reflect on consequences. As human beings, we do have responsibilities and awareness of our action, kamma and so forth. But a lot of the English words that describe ottapa, they use the word moral dread or moral fear.

I prefer to just use Hirī and Ottappa, having a clearer understanding of the actual definition. But again, it can cause a lot of misunderstanding from the English term itself.

[00:05:56] Cheryl:

Yeah, I think the words fear and shame are very intense words. It elicits a very negative reaction. In our day to day, you’re trying to avoid fear and shame. I really like how you rephrased it as the ability to see unwholesomeness as shameful. It really helps us to reflect on the actions and behaviors that are actually very dirty in nature, that’s why it’s shameful, rather than us having that shame that perhaps comes from wrong conditioning.

[00:06:21] Kai Xin:

I would like to share an example to illustrate Hirīottappa, you can correct me if I’m wrong. You mentioned that it’s something that we innately have, Hirī, a sense of shame or conscience. We know what exactly is wrong or right.

So, there was one day my mom when she was fetching my niece from preschool, she’s around four years old. She’s a little bit out of character. Very unusually quiet. And then my mom kind of noticed that something is amiss and then she found out that my niece has taken from the preschool, a Lego and then she put it in her arms. She kind of knows that she’s not supposed to do it, but she also doesn’t wanna tell. So there’s a little bit of like, okay, what if I get found out, you know? Like, will my mom scold her? Will her mother scold her? And what’s the consequences? Which kind of led her to also be not so vocal about what is wrong. She probably have taken it by accident and then only found out about it afterwards.

So I thought that’s particularly interesting because at such a young age she already knows that taking things that is not hers is not so right. So would that be an example of Hirī?

[00:07:31] Sis Mi Yen:

In a way. I think your niece has gone into another experience. The Pali word that I can recall is Kukkucca. It is actually the guilt and remorse happening. I think this is again, very, very natural. A lot of us have this frequent misunderstanding. We get Hirīottappa quite mixed up with Kukkucca, remorse. So actually Kukkucca is the feeling that arises after the bad action has been committed. So your niece has taken the Lego. It’s actually committed already, that’s why it is already Kukkucca.

Whereas, Hirī and Ottappa are actually the conflict in our mind and the feeling that arises before the bad action happens. So they are actually protective factors. Hopefully they are here to protect our minds from moral defilements or immoral action.

Thank you for bringing this example up. That’s why a lot of times in the classes on Hirīottappa, we have to discuss about Kukkucca. Cause it comes together in that sense.

[00:08:32] Kai Xin:

It’s kind of like the cartoon, you know, they have the angel and devil. So it is before to prevent us from even taking the Lego. But then after you have already committed, then that’s where the remorse comes in.

[00:08:46] Sis Mi Yen:

And the guilt comes in.

[00:08:48] Kai Xin:

That’s interesting. Could you give us some examples of real-life situation of Hirī and Ottappa?

[00:08:54] Sis Mi Yen:

Okay. Actually, all of us in a way, innately have Hirīottappa in us.

But it is still important for us to develop or practise it. For this, I actually want to bring us back to a very important reference from Ashin Buddhaghosa, a fifth-century Indian Theravāda Buddhist commentator, translator and philosopher. So, Ashin Buddhaghosa has actually highlighted eight factors that can help us to facilitate or cultivate Hirī and Ottappa. Hopefully we have these eight factors to guide us further.

First, remember we are a person of good birth. Birth is rare in our Buddhist practice. So remember that it is not worthy of a person with good birth to do unwholesome action. Remember our rare birth as a human being.

Number two. These unwholesome actions are not worthy of a mature person like me. Hopefully our maturity from our practice will also prompt us to recall that.

Third, these unwholesome actions are just unacceptable. I am a strong and courageous person. I have been practicing all our Buddhist practices, therefore I should not do this.

Fourth, these unwholesome actions are usually committed by those who are unwise. Hopefully, I have wisdom from all my Buddhist practices to guide me.

Fifth, I am a Buddhist practitioner. So I would reflect on our Buddhist doctrines, which always teach us on wholesomeness. Reflect on the dignity of the Buddha our teacher who has given us the Buddha Dhamma as the path, especially our Noble Eightfold Path. So let me keep to this. My Buddhist practice is my inheritance in this present life. So I would like to honor this for myself and also for the other people in my life because if I do something unwholesome, I’m going to hurt them.

So he described these eight beautiful factors that can help us to practice Hirī. If we can remember, just go back to the basics, the Four Noble Truth, the Noble Eightfold Path. You’ll be guided by what Ashin has actually mentioned.

He says there are another four factors. Clear understanding of the consequences will totally stop us from committing unwholesomeness. He says this, we will be afraid of doing something that we are gonna regret later, if we know this unwholesomeness is gonna be criticised, that we are gonna be punished in the present life or the future life. Very related to our core Buddhist practice. I always love contemplating and reminding myself of maintaining Hirī and Ottappa in myself. That’s how we can practice to cultivate Hirī and Ottappa. I know it’s a long explanation but we will share with our listeners all the important links.

[00:11:59] Kai Xin:

It’s good that you actually brought up the context or the different line of thoughts because then these are signposts on the kind of narrative that goes in our head. Then you recognize, oh, this is actually trying to guard my morality so that I would have no regret in the future.

In fact, I would share another anecdotal experience to kind of make this a little bit more relatable. I would say, especially the Dhamma practice, because we have the Five Precepts. So no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no lying and no intoxicant, right? The precepts itself has always been at the back of my head and has actually allowed me to avoid troubles or dangers, particularly when it comes to lying. This one is quite difficult, I would say, because white lie is also involved and sometimes you not saying anything, hiding the truth, if you’re strict about it, it’s also considered lying. Right? So that was actually a very interesting instance at work. I was in a moral dilemma. Our team has actually accidentally circulated a confidential piece of information from client A to client B, and this was by accident.

So the moment when we found out, it was a moral dilemma because if we don’t tell, then the client won’t know that we have made this mistake. But if we do tell, our client might feel that, hey, why don’t we kind of guard their confidential information safely. There might be trust that is lost.

But then there’s also the other side, which is what if we don’t tell? Eventually our client were to find out and we knew that we should have told. So there was kind of like a little bit of ding-dong and then I kind of couldn’t sleep as well. In the end, we made the difficult decision, which is to own up to our mistake because it is our responsibility. And I think the whole concern is about, okay, will we destroy the trust? But the very fact that we are hiding the truth, there’s no transparency, there’s no trust, right? So we have to bear our consequences.

Our client actually appreciated it. What we thought would be quite a big hoo-ha didn’t unfold in the manner that we expect, we expect our clients to actually scold us. So what happened was our client was very thankful and said, okay, it was by mistake, can you let us know who are the relevant parties? And also let me check with my team, who’s part of legals and comms to see what can be done. And then for us, of course our offer is okay, whatever corrective actions you want us to take, we will go ahead and take it. But it was such a big load off all of our chests because the very fact that we are not hiding anything to me it’s about keeping the precept of honesty as well as being truthful.

Also from a leadership standpoint, it does set some form of tone, right? Like how do you own up to your mistake and say that it’s okay, we make mistakes. Be responsible for our actions. There’s so much more respect from there rather than doing it otherwise.

[00:15:01] Sis Mi Yen:

Wow. I’m so proud, you know, of what has transpired between you, your team, and the other team. And this is the amazing part, you know? Cause we human beings actually have conscience. We have the ability to recognise mistakes and we know that if we do not resolve it, it’s gonna be sticky. And it’s very interesting that we can’t go against natural emotions.

In the psychology of emotions in Buddhism, there are four sets of basic challenging emotions that none of us can escape. The example that you give is guilt and shame. The four challenging emotions are anger and hatred, fear and anxiety, grief or sorrow, guilt or shame. It will arise. We cannot run away from it.

And of course, the more we are able to reflect and practice Hirīottappa, hopefully it will prevent occurrence of the four sets of challenging emotions and your example is right on the dot on that. Instead of anger or hatred from your client, you know, they actually have positive emotion. They were appreciative of your honesty. So you see we are always very stuck on the negativity. But we forgot that there’s always the other positive part of emotions and actions of course. I’m so happy to hear that the situation was actually resolved. I cannot imagine that stress that you guys were having due to that.

[00:16:32] Kai Xin:

It was quite stressful. Like, will we lose a client because of that, you know, our reputation will be tarnished. And everything turned out to be alright and I think it was for the better. I thought whatever you mentioned was so true. Fear and shame, connotation is usually very negative, very intense. Ajahn Jayasāro clarified to say it’s actually wise shame and wise fear, when you use it skillfully, it actually helps you to reduce the emotions that you talk about – anxiety, restlessness and helps us be more peaceful.

[00:17:01] Sis Mi Yen:

Yes, definitely. That’s why Hirī and Ottappa are called the two superheroes or the protectors of the world. We need this as a human being in our world. It’s so scary. There are a lot of bad deeds, evilness because of the lack of Hirī and Ottappa. If we didn’t have Hirī and Ottappa, to protect us, we have to then deal with Kukkucca. It’s when the bad action has been committed, but we need to deal with the guilt, the remorse, the shame.

[00:17:33] Cheryl:

I got a question that could be quite obvious. So what would be considered a good deed or a bad deed? So, for example, in Kai Xin’s case, it’s obvious, following the five percepts. That’s examples of maintaining morality, maintaining goodness but a lot of times, what we think is bad is not really bad. For example, premarital sex. Some people would think it’s very bad, but if you dive a little bit deeper, it’s because society said so, or your parents said so. So it’s very subjective to a certain extent. How do we know what is truly considered a good deed?

[00:18:06] Sis Mi Yen:

Ah, that’s very tricky. To me, not good deeds they’re any deeds that does not fall under our practice of Five Precepts. It’s actually very deep itself. So that will definitely always guide us to perform good deeds and to abstain from bad deeds. Another Buddhist practice will be the Noble Eightfold Path. To practice the Noble Eightfold Path itself is not easy. Having the Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, that is itself will take us many lives to practise.

Based on what you have actually mentioned, that example is very frequently asked by people. So is premarital sex a sexual misconduct breaking the third precept? So I would say that it all depends on the two persons involved in the act. The element that you touch on, the cultural aspect or the religious aspect is tricky. Some religious rules is no premarital sex. So then they will view that as very negative.

But I think our third precept to abstain from sexual misconduct, it has to do with these two individuals. Are they truly clear and respectful of each other when they are in that sexual relationship? Are they both willing?

It’s very tricky on the frame of mind of the two person. If there is clarity on both sides, then it is a mutual relationship. If one person is hesitant or not comfortable and so forth, then of course, that act itself is a misconduct.

Right or wrong, the mind always wants to judge, it’s so tricky. If we wanna go deeper into the perception that arises in us, in making that judgment itself, what are many more layers behind it that make us arrive at the right or the wrong. It’s much more worthwhile to go back to actually investigate the processes, rather looking at what is right or what is wrong. It’s so subjective. But of course, living in a society there are rules set by the country, the government, of course those are hard to challenge. But in terms of moral or social rules that becomes very tricky.

My suggestion is, if we are practicing Buddhism always have that mindfulness to bring us back to investigate the processes that’s happening internally. Learn from that processes itself. So, I’m not sure whether I’ve answered you, Cheryl.

[00:20:51] Cheryl:

You helped to remind us that it’s important to understand what’s really going on internally because you cannot lie to yourself to a certain extent.

[00:21:00] Kai Xin:

And I think it’s also important to understand the purpose behind even keeping the precepts or discerning what’s right and wrong. What I find beautiful about the Buddhist teaching is everything should lead us to peace. So if we have this mental restlessness and agitation by saying, oh, but it’s a gray area. Is it right? Is it wrong? Caught up with this endless debate, then it doesn’t actually help us free ourselves from suffering. There’s this term called sīlabbata-parāmāsa, clinging to rules and rituals, or even clinging on to our views. And it’s a very subtle part of practice because sometimes we like to follow rules, especially a very Asian context, right? Like, oh, this means this, B means B, C means C, but the world isn’t so black and white.

 I think precepts is meant for us to find that peace and also live harmoniously with the society around us. Which is why in the discourses, a lot of times actually the Buddha did mention to abide by the law of the nation to not cause a disruption. As practitioners, our own responsibility is to also say, okay, if I were to do this, yes, it’s a little bit gray. Once I do this deed will I then have regret? For me, I found that to be very helpful. If it doesn’t bring peace, then perhaps I won’t venture into that path.

[00:22:19] Sis Mi Yen:

Somehow, there is this extreme category where some people have that deep, ignorance about the world, about being human. They will not be able to even have the realization, the reflection or the awareness of wholesomeness and unwholesomeness in the first place. That will be the very hard evil, really hardcore bad deeds and so forth, but to me, that’s a very small percentage.

But the bottom line is, the higher percentage of all of us have this basic ability to know what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. A lot of times because we are challenged by our greed, we want “Nevermind lah”. So I think it’s a lot more on that. In our Buddhist practice, we really understanding our greed, hatred and delusion is always with us. How do we deal with that?

For me, the Noble Eightfold Path has really unfolded for us the answer. The cultivation of the mind, the mental development, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration. This is the hardest part for a lot of Buddhist, the meditative practice and effort. It’s only with that do we actually train our mind, every moment so that hopefully we do have this calmness, clarity in us that we can carry to face the world with a lot of vices and evilness and so forth, we can’t avoid that.

But hopefully with this cultivation, no matter how ugly it is out there, hopefully we can maintain that inner freedom and peace, which to me is the main Buddhist teaching or Buddhist practice. If you don’t practice Right Effort, Right Concentration, Right Mindfulness, you are not able to cultivate Hirīottappa. No way.

[00:24:10] Cheryl:

I think Hirī and Ottappa also helps to protect our long-term happiness. For example, the Fifth Precept to not intoxicate, but sometimes life is very hard. You just want to numb yourself by intoxicating.

[00:24:22] Sis Mi Yen:

The temptation, fighting greed, is very challenging for all of us in this materialistic world. Right?

[00:24:29] Kai Xin:

Yeah, I do see how mindfulness and concentration especially, can help us to have that clarity of mind to even tap into our own inner wisdom because we have many things happening around us. It’s very easy to be swayed. Like if we hang out with the wrong company, then we would think that it’s okay to indulge, but it doesn’t necessarily lead to our long-term welfare. Yeah, so also very important to hang out with wise friends in order to kind of help us stay on the path, to recalibrate. And most importantly, we have to be truthful to ourselves.

[00:25:01] Sis Mi Yen:

Since today we’re talking about Hirīottappa, I would like to highlight that a lot of our Buddhist core teachings are all interconnected. But Hirī and Ottappa, it is placed under the Treasure Dhana Sutta. It’s two out of the seven Noble Treasures. So maybe let me just share with the listener what are the Seven Noble Treasures? We will give the link to the audience.

 So the first category is actually moral training. Under the moral training there are four treasures, four practices, the treasure of faith, Saddhā. Start with Saddhā, our faith towards Dhamma. Second one is the treasure of moral virtue, followed by the treasure of Hirī, moral shame and the treasure of Ottappa, moral fear. So these four are grouped under moral training.

And with this, comes in the next category, the meditation training. Here they have two treasures for us to practice. The treasure of learning, and I think it’s very deep. The next one is the treasure of charity or generosity. It’s very interesting that this sutta they place it under meditation training.

The last one, number seven is actually the wisdom training and this is the treasure of wisdom, paññā.

See how important is Hirī and Ottappa. It’s within these seven that Budha has actually taught all of us. Hold these as treasures in your life as human being. It’s very, very near, interconnected back to our Noble Eightfold Path.

So it’s all interconnected. The moral training is gonna be connected to our wisdom training. And it’s gonna be connected to our Samādhi training, the mental cultivation training. The Eightfold Path is also three categories. It’s similar with the seven treasures.

But the one I really like is the first treasure, saddhā, faith. We should ask ourselves, you know, how deep is our faith towards the Buddha Dhamma, so how deeply or strongly, we understand the Four Noble Truths, the Three Defilements, the Noble Eightfold Path and of course the Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, the mental cultivation, the meditative practice. All these core itself takes many lives to practice. But go back to that again and again. I think this is so complementary how they positioned the Hirī and Ottappa, very systematic.

Our Buddha, our Buddhist suttas are very systematic. It’s very interesting how they categorize it. But if you actually are able to look at the matching of the categories then you find that the practice are actually very flowing. Like these seven treasures, to me, it’s so flowing like the Noble Eightfold Path.

[00:27:53] Kai Xin:

Thank you for sharing. I have a curious question. You mentioned learning and charity is under the meditation training. Can you elaborate more on that?

[00:28:03] Sis Mi Yen:

Okay. Disclaimer, I may not understand the Treasure Dhana Sutta well. So please the listeners forgive me if I’m not clear or misquoting, but based on my reading and my understanding why the treasure of learning and the treasure of charity is under meditation training.

I think learning is very clear because in meditation training the learning of the mind system especially, if you do not have this ability, passion, to actually want to learn, then meditation training will become very difficult. So the attitude in learning is very important for meditation training.

 Charity is very interesting. If we actually hold this treasure of charity in our life, which means that we are a generous person, a giving person, and also know how to receive at the same time, we are a very balanced person. This balance is also very important in our meditation practice.

If we always have that greed and all that stinginess and that holding back, which is the direct opposite of the treasure of charity, you can imagine the state of your mind, very constricted. Right? Versus the generosity, that openness in your practice, which is definitely very important for the meditation training, the quality of the mind. So the practice of generosity itself, you know, it’s just not like, donate, donate, donate. It’s a very meaningful and detailed process of what’s going through your mind, right? That readiness, that openness, that happiness in giving. Sometimes we give, but it comes with, “Aiya, I should have given so much…”. When you go into the processes, corrupted already right?

[00:29:53] Kai Xin:

Haven’t really let go and renounced. Actually, speaking of meditation, just wanna circle back and tie it to Hirīottappa.

I do know some people might say, Hey, you know, I don’t wanna get too deep into this Dhamma practice, because then it kind of makes me feel very uptight. Like in the past, you know, ignorance is bliss, right? I don’t know all these Five Precepts. I don’t meditate. You know, I can still enjoy life in a different way and fleeting happiness, that’s just part of life.

So they kind of restrict themselves from entering the Dhamma practice in a too deep manner. What are your thoughts on that? Do you feel like there’s a need to recalibrate the view in order to serve them while they’re still practising without, I don’t know, compromising their happiness?

[00:30:36] Sis Mi Yen:

That’s a very tough question, Kai Xin. I think I’m gonna approach it this way. If the individual truly is happy, peaceful, blissful with whatever they are practicing or living with. It is fine. But if it’s ignorant bliss or more of a denial kind of situation, No lah, I don’t want to practise Five Precepts, you know, it’s very restricting and things like that. If it is more towards that, they will help to deal with a lot of those challenging emotions that is gonna arise. A lot of times, people have to discover the hard way.

After they encounter the difficulties, then only they will actually appreciate, you know, what Buddha has taught us. If as we are sharing or talking, some people say, “Aiya, all these are not gonna be helpful for me”, my approach is always, yeah, it’s okay. As long as you are actually doing fine, you’re okay. But then, when they encounter challenges, if they come to us, that’s when, hopefully we have the skillfulness, to impart our Buddhist practices or teaching to them subtly. You know, that’s where we are not gonna talk about Hirī and Ottappa because I think it’s already Kukkucca a lot of times.

But we gonna help them to look at their emotion of guilt, remorse, shame. What are you gonna do with it? What can you do with it? And whether our Buddhist practices then can help them to deal with it. So that’s an easy way to convince them to practice. Yeah, nobody’s going to go for meditation retreat if they’re doing fine, I tell you.

But really, you know, people who really encounter problems and then they meet people that can share with them the Dhamma in the right condition, right timing, then they will hopefully attempt and appreciate it.

And there are also people who goes into all our Buddhist practices, but they will still have a lot of hindrances. In meditation practice, the five hindrances itself is great. You can imagine it is a lifelong learning to even face all these hindrances.

So I would say that if people are in denial, we continue to be a good person, a good friend or a good colleague, to be there to support them when they need it. That’s where our generosity in helping will be helpful at that point.

[00:33:02] Kai Xin:

Thanks for that. I think that’s very wise and it also allows people to navigate based on their own capacity and we don’t become like a precept or a Dhamma police cause it can then be another situation where we feel that we are more superior and people are more inferior and they should do things a certain way, which is not helpful for our practice as well. So there’s a lot of inner search and inner calibration that we have to do. This very nicely wraps up our session, in a nice tone.

So today we have talked about quite a lot of things. Starting with what exactly is Hirīottappa and how it’s commonly misunderstood as Kukkucca. So the first one is having wise fear and shame before we commit a wrong deed. So that’s gonna protect us from even going down the wrong path or a path that we might end up feeling guilt and feeling remorseful, which is Kukkucca.

And then you also shared about the importance of keeping precepts and really there’s no real right and wrong. We have to understand our thought processes. It’s really about the interaction between people, right? When we have the precept, whether it’s between you and your partner, or you and society.

[00:34:08] Sis Mi Yen:

You and yourself.

[00:34:10] Kai Xin:

Yes, definitely. So it’s all intertwined and we ultimately have to see how peaceful we are when we are embodying all these qualities or trying to be an upright person. Also, you talked about the noble treasures, moral training meditation training, as well as wisdom training. We’re gonna put resources in the show notes for our listeners who want to find out more about each of these treasures.

Yeah, I think at the end of the day it’s about being truthful and honest. Innately, we already know what is beneficial. We just need that mental clarity and stillness to tap into our inner wisdom, sometimes, be the support to our friends around us without forcing, and sometimes also lean on others to guide us on the right path. So, thank you very much, Sister Mi Yen.

 Any last advice for our listeners before we say goodbye?

[00:35:02] Sis Mi Yen:

I would say maybe start with the treasure of faith and really maintain the treasure of learning, if I would pick two out of the seven. I’d like to thank Kai Xin and Cheryl for inviting me to share this difficult topic.

I hope we are able to shed some light through all our definition and dialogue and so forth. Nevertheless, I wish everyone a fruitful path in our cultivation. I’d definitely place mental cultivation, meditation, as the path that hopefully all of us will continue to stay on. So naturally, thank you to both of you for having this session with me. And we’d like to thank all the listeners. Especially when they click on our podcasts and listen to us. We thank them for spending time with us.

[00:35:56] Kai Xin:

Thank you so much.

[00:35:57] Cheryl:

Thank you Sis. Mi Yen.

[00:35:58] Kai Xin:

Thanks for tuning in till the end. That’s a very insightful sharing. And if you’ll like to look at some more resources about the topic, you can go to our transcript or the show notes. We have placed some links there. And ultimately, if you’ve benefited from this podcast, it would really help us if you can give us a five-star review and share it with a friend.

And till the next episode, may you stay happy and wise.

Resources:

Discourses on the topic of Hiri & Otappa:
Kaṇha Sutta, AN 2.7
Sukka Sutta, AN 2.8
Cariya Sutta, AN 2.9

Hiri & Ottappa – The Guardians of the World are two of the seven Noble Treasures –
Treasure Dhana Sutta (AN 7:5, AN 7:6)

Quick learning on Hiri & Otappa:

Step-by-step learning
https://www.fourthmessenger.org/dhamma-studies-1/unit-1/lesson-1-2-hiri-ottappa/

KUKKUCCHA:

Remorse & guilt = feelings that arise after bad action is committed
Kukkucca often discussed together with uddhacca (restlessness), both uddhacca-kukkucca is
the 4th of the 5 hindrances in our meditation practice. Refer to the full text of “The Five
Mental Hindrances and Their Conquest” by Nyanaponika Thera
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/wheel026.html

Special thanks to our sponsors of the podcast

Buddhist Youth Network, Lim Soon Kiat, Alvin Chan, Tan Key Seng, Soh Hwee Hoon, Geraldine Tay, Venerable You Guang, Wilson Ng, Diga, Joyce, Tan Jia Yee, Joanne, Suñña.

Editor and transcriber of this episode: Tee Ke Hui

Ep 13: Can we cure death? (Ft Dr Ng Yuen Yen)

Ep 13: Can we cure death? (Ft Dr Ng Yuen Yen)

Dr Ng  00:00

When I see life and death very close up, because of my work in emergency medicine, that I’m unable as a doctor, to cure death. And then I sort of wake up. Oh, the Buddha has cured death, the Buddha has understood death.

Kai Xin  00:28

Hey friends, this is Kai Xin, and you’re listening to the Handful of Leaves podcast where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life. 

What does it mean to cure death? 

In this episode, we speak to Dr Ng Yuen Yen, a retired emergency doctor and veteran Buddhist teacher, to learn more about the gradual path to the end of suffering or what Buddhists call the Deathless or Nibbana.

Nibbana. We all heard of it but do we really know it? Is it for everyone? Is it attainable? Is it even worth pursuing? 

This episode attempts to unpack Nibbana and shares a balanced approach on how we can slowly increase our happiness here and now. Dr Ng also shares her inspiring journey as a Buddhist and the turning point that deepened her inspiration to practice Buddhism urgently in this life. 

Tune in to learn more in this practical and insightful episode, and you may just never look at clouds and pebbles the same way again 😉 

Kai Xin  1:41

Hi. So happy to have you here, Dr. Ng. Today we are going to talk about a really big topic on the burner. And I can’t think of anyone better than you. You came highly recommended by one of the Dhamma teachers, Sister Sylvia. And perhaps we can start off this podcast episode by you sharing a little bit more about yourself and how you got in touch with the Dhamma.

Dr Ng  2:10

I’m born into a Buddhist family, I’m very fortunate, that from a very young age, I was exposed to Mahayana Buddhism. And when I was very young, I remembered feeling extremely happy in a temple, especially when devotees were chanting the Amitabha or chant and then circumambulating the temple. My mother also taught us to memorise the Heart Sutra, and then to copy the Heart Sutra, and to recite it often, but I didn’t really understand it when I’m young. But now with exposure to the Dhamma practice, I appreciate it very, very much. And I think the discipline learnt from my elder siblings, (I’m the youngest), helped me to restrain myself. So I learned how to restrain and I studied very well. So the family setting was very conducive to the practice.

Dr Ng  03:25

Eventually, when I was older, I took up medicine. And then subsequently, after my postgraduate degree in emergency medicine, I had more time to explore. And that’s when I get into meditation, and I find it fascinating. The exploration of the mind and the body. So, then I got hook. After that, my friends said to me, “Hey, you cannot just meditate all the time, you must have some academic background.” And that’s when I did the Diploma in Buddhist Studies, Bachelor of Arts and Honours at the Mangala Vihara Buddhists Pali College. Because we were the new batch, the principal, the late Bhante Gnanarama, requested both Sylvia and myself to teach. So I have taught for about 18 years in Mangala Vihara. Initially, because there are very few teachers, I taught the BA students even, but subsequently, I taught the diploma students, because I feel it’s very important, for the foundation of the Dhamma to be laid, and understood. So that from a foundation, you can venture elsewhere and be discerning. So this is my Dhamma journey.

Dr Ng  04:53

 I’m 67 years old already, and I’ve retired at 61. So although retired, I’m still busy managing my family, elderly siblings, which are very grateful to, for all the help and guidance that they have given me when I was younger.  I love the Dhamma and I try to practice the Dhamma daily, moment by moment, and I have enjoyed the Dhamma, I find that Dhamma is so wonderful, because it is what the Buddha has said – that it will help you to reduce and remove your suffering. What is the most important to reduce suffering is to have happiness. So then you will get to enjoy the happiness of the nature of what is the truth of the Dhamma. So this is my journey. And I’m very fortunate to be able to have the time to explore the depths of the Dhamma.

Kai Xin  05:41

Wow, seems like, you’ve come a long way since young until now. 67 still learning and teaching. I’m wondering, for the concept of nibbana, that’s the core of Buddhism. And I believe it’s also the goal that Buddhists are trying to strive towards. Is there a change in your understanding of what it is when you first started out learning Buddhism and now?

Dr Ng  06:29

Oh, when I first started learning Buddhism, I was more intrigued with meditation. It is later on when I was taught about mindfulness of death. And mindfulness of death that life is uncertain. And that death is certain. And I see life and death very close up, because I work in emergency medicine. Even I’m unable as a doctor, to cure death. And at this time, that woke me up to the realisation that Buddha has cured death, the Buddha has understood death, and I have to understand that for myself. The Buddha understood, the Buddha understood, but it’s not me. So I felt very strongly that I have to understand death. And I then sort of understood that why the Buddha, whenever he see these four sights, he got this urgency, to practice. The four sights are to see an old man, to see a sick man, to see a dead man. And then these are the signs to remind us, that we have to practice. Because as long as we are born, we will grow old, every moment we grow old, and we will face with sickness, like this COVID thing. And we will face death, like there were so many deaths. And if we do not know the answer, then we go round and round.

Dr Ng  08:21

So initially, it was just an interesting adventure. Then later on, when I understood more, then I find the urgency to practice, to know the Dhamma for myself, that I then turn the goal towards the end of suffering. And that’s the same goal, same goal as Nibbana. So my goals have changed from beginning. And then now, in my later years, this goal is gradual. If you want it so much, it becomes an obstacle. It is just like what the Buddhists say, neither hurrying, neither carrying, the energy is just nice, just middle path. Neither going to self indulgence, nor going to self mortification, neither indulging in pleasure, nor averse to displeasure. When you are on the middle path, you’re on the Noble Eightfold Path, then it will help you end the suffering, and then you’ll see the happiness that he described. You may have glimpses of it, and that will reinforce the practice, and that you continue to walk this path.

Kai Xin  09:52

I just have goosebumps when you talk about your experience. Earlier on, you mentioned that, as a doctor, you realise that you cannot cure death. I think it resonated a lot with me, because I was also thinking about, you know, what’s the best occupation on Earth? A Doctor seems to be a very noble occupation. But it seems like no matter how much research and development with a medicine and new intervention, there will always be new diseases, new viruses, and there’s no end to this suffering, right. And that’s also when I realised that the actually the most noble occupation, is to realise the Dhamma and then to spread wisdom. It’s just like what you’re doing right now, because Nibbana is the Deathless.

Kai Xin  10:42

For listeners who might not necessarily understand what Nibbana is. Can you unpack a little bit about why you say the Buddha can cure death?

Dr Ng  10:53

He taught us Nibbana as the far shore, and in that far shore, there is also called a deathless, ageless, birthless. Where there is no more arising of lust, of desires, no more arising of hatred, or ill will, no more arising of delusion, all these three roots of existence have been destroyed.  Nibbana, the Buddha defined as the unconditioned. So this destruction means there will be no more rebirth, he says in the Mahaparanibbana. This is the last birth, or he says, “this person will not be seen by me again, because he will not be in the cycle of Samsara anymore.”

Kai Xin  11:57

Samsara meaning birth and death.

Dr Ng  12:00

Yes, yes, Samsara is birth and death. In the realms of existence, the realms of existence ranges from the hell, to the highest heaven, and there is birth and death of animals. Then there’s birth and death of human beings. But there is another dimension, where there are hell beings, and there are ghost realm beings. And lastly, there are the heavenly beings, but all these beings in existence, arise and die, arise and die. As long as they arise, they will suffer, even in the heavens, they suffer. Even the richest man on Earth will also suffer.

Kai Xin  12:50

When you say that the Buddha is able to cure them, from my understanding and your description, it seems like one can be free from the cycles of birth and death. And by that it is also being free from ill will, being free from hatred and delusion. Does it mean that a person needs to believe in birth and death and different realms in order to strive towards their freedom of suffering towards nibbana?

Dr Ng  13:21

We do not need to die to see the different realms of existence. We see people going through hell when they are suffering. When they move from warzone, they go into trucks, they want to run away, and some die in the process. Isn’t that hell? Can you imagine? Having so little food? You’ll be like Hungry Ghost, and you’re with people passing urine and shit in a very small space? Isn’t that hell?

Kai Xin  13:57

Actually, you don’t have to go through warzone also feel like hell sometimes. Right? Yeah. See for example success. There’s always not enough, wanting one after the next. And if we look from a practical day to day standpoint, let’s see if a person wants to be free from suffering. How can one experience that?

Dr Ng  14:23

The Four Noble Truths is that the origin of suffering is craving. If you want ‘things’ so much, you need to have your sense pleasures from your sense objects, then there is no end to luxury items. But if you can be satisfied with just the four basic things, with just shelter, food, water, medicine, if you don’t demand so much, from yourself, wanting this and that, be contented that there’s a roof over your head, that medicine is accessible to you, that you are clothed decently. If you are contented, you can live a very simple life, then you don’t need to run after things to be a slave to your desires. We need to go back to nature, to experience the quiet, the stillness, a walk in the park, looking at the sky, observe the clouds, the trees, smell the roses, there’s a lot of joy in nature. You don’t need the joy from material things, the joy in nature, you can satisfy your being because happiness is free actually.

Kai Xin  15:48

Yeah, actually, sometimes we get there already with all the material gains, but we are still not happy, like you say,the richest man and the woman that can still suffer. Does it mean that a person needs to give up everything in order to be free from suffering? Because I also do understand that the Buddha did say that worldly and material desires or gains, they can bring a form of happiness, but it’s not the most sustainable one.

Dr Ng  16:19

You cannot force, you have to do it gradually. So even you become homeless or renounced oneself, the practice has still to be gradual. It doesn’t mean that once the head is shaved, the robes are worn, that there is no more craving. This craving is in the mind, it is a mind object. The clinging is in the mind. So you don’t have to give up everything, but you have to give up only lust, hatred and delusion- the delusion of that there is a self. Because delusion of a self, will sort of have that “who is to attain. which will be I need to attain.” So, there is an that “I” will need to attain, but you see, all conditioned things are impermanent and impermanent things are suffering, and suffering is non-self. Once you see this, then you would want not to hold on to anything, but this is a gradual path. Also you must remember that renounced beings also may have lots of things. So, the renunciation, direct relinquishing has to be in the mind, and that it doesn’t matter, you do not have these (material things). And then there is the destruction of craving, cessation, dispassion. So, these are the things that the Buddha taught, but you know, you have to be quiet to see the gems at the bottom of the lake. If it is like, muddy up, you can’t see. So, you have to be quiet, then you can see, you have to pay attention.

Dr Ng  18:13

It is attainable, and it is being verified by the Buddha, and the Sangha members who are all human beings. And the Sangha members include, like the stream enterers, like even King Bimbisara, Anandapindika, practising laypeople, so many of them may be stream enterers too. So do not be disheartened. There are like-minded practitioners, they come together, and we encourage each other in that Dhamma practice.

Kai Xin  18:46

So for listeners who are not sure what stream enterer is, is basically you’re kind of dipping your toes in the water of Nibbana. And you can’t unsee the wisdom and there’s no turning back that Nibbana is guaranteed, and from my understanding, it is within seven lifetimes. Is that correct?

Dr Ng  19:05

Yes. Yes. That’s what the teachings say. All right.

Kai Xin  19:11

You mentioned about gradual path, I’m wondering whether you can share your personal experience, about how you realise holding on to impermanence is suffering, and how you slowly relinquished it?

Dr Ng  19:24

Okay, so impermanence is something of the body and of the mind, of all phenomena. And you can always get in touch with impermanence, when you do Anapanasati meditation, when you do breathing in and breathing out. So I would recommend highly, that people practice the 16 steps of Anapanasati. And also practice Satipatthana. So you just read the sutras, it is a line by line guidance. In the first four steps, where you just breathe in and breathe out, the first step breathing in, you know, you’re breathing in long, or breathing out long. The second step is that you’re breathing in, short, or breathing out short, then the third step is to experience the entire breathing in. Eventually, when you look at it (the breathing), it gets calm. When you look at just the breathing in, you can see impermanence. There’s a beginning of the breath, and then the breath itself, and then the process of the breath and then the end of the breathing in. So there is an arising and an ending. So if you can see these three, you see the impermanence, you see the non-self of breathing, is just a condition. And this is very close to yourself, to your being. This requires practice.

Dr Ng  21:09

And then you then go into the foundation of feelings. To see what is the feeling of just breathing in and out. Nothing else just breathing in and out. Not caring about anything in the rest of the world. You will experience the rapture of the body. Breathing in and out, just hear the vibrations of the body, as a body that is just breathing and that is pleasurable in the mind and just experience the mental formations. These mental formation also changes. This bodily formations, and mental formations are impermanent, just like the clouds in the sky, the cloud formation in the sky is impermanent, you look at them as if there’s something substantial. But when you go above the clouds in the plane, you see, there’s nothing, there’s no substance in it at all. Cloud formation, bodily formation, mental formation, empty. And then you see for yourself, day in day out, we all tie the mind to mind objects. This mind objects is not the mind.

Dr Ng  22:34

This mind objects are like the Buddha says in Satipathana. The hindrances is like the pebble that you throw into the mind. But it’s not the mind, the mind as a base has changes. Even in the pleasurable states, it changes. So there’s nothing substantial about it. But of course, experiencing the pleasurable changes is pleasurable. But you also know that these are impermanent, that there is nothing to hold on to, and most importantly, not to be caught up with the mind objects. And the mind objects are what the Buddha has very clearly stated, the mind objects are the hindrances.

Dr Ng  23:22

So you see hindrances such as lust. You throw a pebble of lust into your mind pool, the mind becomes coloured, you can’t see clearly. You throw the pebble of anger into your mind, it boils, you can’t see clearly. If you throw a pebble of doubt, it is muddy, you can’t see clearly. If you throw a pebble of sloth, it is all heavily thick, like algae-infested reed . And then you throw the pebble of restlessness and worry, then that pool, the mind pool, just stripped here and dead and restless, you can’t see the mind for what it is. So these are hindrances. And you have to see for itself, that if you do your practice of focus, you will not be distracted by all this. But you have to see them as mind objects that arise and ceases and it gets liberated, or you get what they call release. So this are things that we see, in the practice, daily, when you walk, you see yourself moving, your activities moving, if you are mindful, your mind is peaceful. If you’re not mindful, you get caught up, your mind is not peaceful. So these are caught up with mind objects.

Kai Xin  24:53

Yeah, I really like how you’ve made it. So simple, right? The gateway to Nibbana is just as simple as with this breath. And by breathing in and out, watching, contemplating, you’re able to see the arising, the ceasing, and so many more. This is something that is very hopeful, because I used to fall into this perception as well, that Nibbana is something that is very far away, that I might not be able to experience and it’s always somewhere else, away from me, and beyond myself. But you have just given examples of how we can contemplate on this daily. And it seems like with all the different examples you have given, Nibbana or the way to attain Nibanna, or to experience it, really starts from stilling the mind. And then once that’s done, I like your analogy of the pebble, you no longer use the pebble to create all the ripple effects. So you clear off the hindrances. You see things clearly as they are and you stop clinging, you stop craving, and that’s where you can really renounce, from a mental level and nothing can cause you to stress despite having external circumstances that can be very chaotic.

Kai Xin  26:11

I’m wondering from your perspective, what would make it worthwhile for people to chase after Nibbana? Because I have heard of people who would feel that Nibbana is not for me, you know, I am okay. Going through life up and down. It makes me feel human to go through sadness to go through anger, and peace is just a little bit too boring.

Dr Ng  28:30

If you suffer enough, if you really suffer mentally, then you want to chase after Nibbana. The Nibbana is defined as the end of craving, destruction of craving, and so we have to practice and to see for ourselves, how craving makes us suffer. And then you will want to end craving, this suffering, because you have to know it for yourself. So sense pleasures, like I want to enjoy life, I want to enjoy life to the maximum, but what is that? What is the enjoyment? That sense pleasure is fleeting. At the end of the life, there may be regrets, and regrets is not what you want. You want to know how to direct your life, to ensure that you did the best you could do in this life. To carry on with just living life, as in enjoying the pleasures of the senses, that is just an ordinary being who doesn’t know the teachings of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and don’t know that he has potential in himself to realise that all this is just a “wah wah game”, it is unstable. It is a charcoal pit that you are let on to it and there’s like a blowing torch, that the wind is blowing at you and the torch is burning. Your world is burning. When you’re sick, you’re burning, for that moment of sense pleasures, you are burning, and the person will be suffering and death is at the door and life is just wasted.

Dr Ng  28:32

But then, you have to walk the middle path. So knowing the gratification, the danger, the escape, one who want to escape from it what more, to realise the full potential of a human being and what the Buddha says that it is possible. So I don’t buy it. That “eat, drink and be merry”, that is not the way.

Kai Xin  29:02

Yeah, I think it does require, like you say, a gradual path in order to realise. It reminded me of the story of Venerable Sariputta. He and his other very good friend, they were at this party, right? So at the top of the hill, they were seeing everyone drinking and be merry. It’s not that they haven’t indulged before, I think it got to a point where they realise that it’s fleeting, and there’s no point. That’s when they went in search for the truth. That was before they met the Buddha. I really hear you in terms of saying it’s only when a person really feels the pinch of suffering, that they will try to find it an answer. So yes, I’m also thinking maybe it’s okay, if a person wants to just go through life, going through the ups and downs, maybe it just isn’t time for that yet. And we can, you know, plant the seeds, cultivate our mindfulness, and rather than taking a big leap to say, “Okay, we have to strive for Nibbana.” But on a day to day basis, how can we just relinquish bit by bit and be slightly happier?” And then eventually, when the time is right, then we would see oh, this is what the Buddha said about Nibbana. And then the roadmap is already presented to us and we are ready to walk the path fully. Yeah, cause I know sometimes people can hear like, oh, Buddhism is very serious, right? I have to give up my sense pleasure, cannot watch TV, you know, cannot go party. Is it wrong?” And I think that view can scare a lot of people away.

Dr Ng  30:34

I think it’s the middle path. Because some people need to destress. So I think some distraction ( I mean, this is their way of destressing) is okay. But you’re gonna have to be very aware of like, where you may over indulge, where you always spend time, on the handphone on certain times. You must be able to regulate and restrain yourself, you must be able to discern what is important in your life. You must put time aside for the practice, sometimes just to be quiet.

Dr Ng  31:14

Of course, when you are stressed, it’s good to ventilate, it’s a way to destress, but you must associate with good people. You must be associated with good friends who wouldn’t like lead you to down an even darker path. You must be with friends who listen to you, and then to encourage you and then to help you navigate back into a less stressful situation. So it is important to have good friends, listen to the Dhamma, pay proper attention. It is gradual. You don’t sort of like, I don’t want this, this become aversive, you might just develop aversion. You cannot force Nibbana, you will suffer because when you force, it is a wanting. So you will see gradually, you learn how to be mindful.  And I think it is individual. Because we all wake up at different times, depending on the conditions, if the conditions are right, then it provides you with more time to practice, but I’m just saying extremes, to say that let’s say, you indulge too much, this is the problems you have.

Kai Xin  32:31

So it’s to understand the limitation of sense pleasure, and always knowing that, let’s say if we get too carried away, Nibbana, the gateway to it, is just here and now. It’s not exclusive. It’s available, and it’s also possible to attain. To me I feel that’s very hopeful, and that’s very inspiring. It’s kind of like a home that we can always turn to.

Dr Ng  32:55

Yes, yes. That’s why you take refuge in the Dhamma, the Buddha, the Sangha, and that this Dhamma of Nibbana can be seen. Sandithiko, Akaliko, Ehipassiko, Opanayiko, paccatam veditabo vinnuhiti. If it cannot be seen, if Nibbana cannot be seen, he won’t say this. He says Nibbana can be seen, the end of craving can be seen- by the wise for himself. The journey has to be walked by oneself, and it is very fortunate if you have good friends, to walk on this journey, to encourage you on this path.

Kai Xin  33:41

Definitely. So to be experienced individually by the wise and you know, turning inwards. Thank you so much for all your sharing. I really like how you started the podcast by saying that there is something beyond death and it is possible. It is a gradual path. And you also provided some of the key steps to do it on a daily basis, suvh as anchoring on our breath, and contemplating on impermanence. I think those are very quick action steps that our listeners can take away. Regarding the point on it is possible to experience the Dhamma, we talk about the Triple Gem. So we have the Buddha, his teachings, the Dhamma and the Sangha. It is precisely because there are disciples and there are individuals who saw the Dhamma, realise what the Buddha realised, that we have the third jewel, which is the Sangha, and there are enlightened beings around the world. And they’re just like, testimonies and role model for us to look up to and say that, hey, if they can do it, we can also do it. And how we go about it, of course, is at our own pace, and based on our own causes and condition. So I just wanted to end off with that. And any last words from you, Dr.Ng? No. All right. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Dr Ng  34:59

Thank you for inviting me. Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu!

Kai Xin  35:11

And that’s a wrap for this episode. My key takeaway is that life is uncertain and only death is certain. If we heedlessly indulge in the pleasures offered in the world through our sight, taste, hearing, touch and smell, we seek refuge in unsatisfactory and unreliable conditions, we may live a life full of suffering and be filled with regrets. The Buddha offered a system and education out of suffering that is achievable and attainable, may we all plant the seeds and conditions for our awakening to a refuge that is beautiful and beyond birth and death. 

If you’ve benefited from this episode, do share this episode  with a friend and leave us a five star review wherever you’re tuning in to this podcast. 

Till the next episode, may you stay happy and wise!

#WW: ☸️ 2500+ years ago a wheel was turned. Here’s why today is special

#WW: ☸️ 2500+ years ago a wheel was turned. Here’s why today is special

Wholesome Wednesdays (WW): Bringing you curated positive content on Wednesdays to uplift your hump day.

Happy Asalha Puja (Dhamma Day)! The lesser known but significant date on the Buddhist calendar. This day marks the first teaching (aka turning of the wheel of the Dhamma) Buddha gave after his enlightenment. The decision to teach the Dhamma had clear results; the first students eventually gained enlightenment! This showed that the Buddha’s method was replicable and accessible to all. Here are two stories to inspire you on this holy day!

1. Established more than 500 years before Oxford University, this Buddhist university is roaring back to life

2. You discovered something profound, who do you share it with? Or do you keep it to yourself?

Established more than 500 years before Oxford University, this Buddhist university is roaring back to life

Credits: BBC

What’s going on here & Why we like it

BBC shares a short reel on Nalanda, a university founded in the 5th Century. It is believed to be the world’s first residential university. Established more than 500 years before Oxford University, at its peak Nalanda hosted over 10,000 students. This video covers the inspiring and amazing task of reviving the university and turning it into a place to develop peace. We like it because it shows how Buddhists with a vision came together to rebuild a place of learning.

“But out of those ashes, now the new university will be coming and that would give the message of peace and nonviolence to the entire globe.”

Wise Steps

Start looking into Buddhist history and head to a museum like ACM in Singapore to understand the rich Buddhist history in Southeast Asia that is often overlooked

Check out the video here or below!

You discovered something profound, who do you share it with? Or do you keep it to yourself?

The first five students of the Buddha

What’s going on here & why we like it

Bhikkhu Thanissaro, a famous translator of the suttas into English, shares the significance of Asalha Puja and the journey Buddha took post-enlightenment. We like it because Bhikkhu Thanissaro neatly summarises the importance of the day and how we can take our practice further.

“The truth of stress and truth of suffering is something that eats away at our minds. It doesn’t just sit there and let you know about it. That’s why the Buddha said that our duty is to comprehend it. So as you learn these truths, you learn about how you can implement it.”

Wise Steps

What emotions and desires are you pursuing right now? Reflecting on what we are chasing enables us to realise which of them are causing us deep suffering. Is the suffering worth the chase of our desire? May you grow in the path of peace on this awesome day!

Enjoy the advice below!


What is enlightenment?

What is enlightenment?

Transcript

A good way to understand what actually enlightenment is, is to go a little back to the story of the person who was to become the Buddha. Just like many other people, was searching for meaning in life, searching for happiness in life, searching for security in life. Like everyone else, we try and find our security in our material possessions. We still do that, even though we should know better by now.

Many people invested lots of money in the stock market. It all goes and disappears. Some people invest all of their energies in having a family, a good family, but sometimes tragedy strikes that family. Sometimes, people invest all their energies in their work, in their fame. When you look at those headstones, upon death, all that’s left of them are just words. They say: “Were, we now are. As they now are, one day, we will be.”.

So, sometimes, the idea of status and fame, there seems to be just something without a core, something without a true meaning.

The noble search

So, just like many people these days, the person who’s to become the Buddha was searching for something deeper, something meaningful in his life, as we all do. Going to many different teachings, trying many different paths, finding nothing, which had satisfaction. That starts off an understanding about the angst, the underlying pain, the underlying suffering. Even though it might not be exquisite, there’s a sense that there must be something more to life, something deeper to life. Why are we here? Where do we come from? Where do we go?

The stream of the world is always to do more things, it’s always to manage, to control. But the other way is actually to let go, to go within, to be still. Such a difficult thing to do.


What is happiness?

What is happiness? What is the cause of happiness? The law of kamma is actually teaching people about how to be happy. And what is the cause of unhappiness?

Not that happiness and unhappiness descends upon you because of some fate, because of some sort of demon in some sort of heaven realm who always got it in for you. Your happiness and your suffering are under your control.

Don’t go pray to the Buddha to become happy. You’re just wasting your time. Don’t blame him, if you sort of don’t become happy. You got no one to blame, no one to ask favours for. You are in complete control of your destiny. Kamma empowers people.

Anyone can be happy

It doesn’t matter what you have to deal with in life, you can make happiness out of anything. You know, you see these little kids, making a football out of rags, or out of a tin can, they can make happiness out of anything. If they can, why can’t you? It’s up to you. You can make enlightenment out of anything at all.

In the time of the Buddha, some people who were enlightened, they were just poor hunchback street sweepers. You didn’t need to be intelligent to be enlightened. You know why? Because you just needed to let go, to love, to give, to be free. You didn’t need much. In fact, the more you have, the more difficult it was to let go. The meaning of life, is to know, to learn, to understand not the things of the world but understand the things of the heart. The meaning deep inside us. That’s what the Buddha did. Penetrated the deep truths of life. The meaning of life is what enlightenment is all about.

It’s okay to have things. But keep it all balanced. Middle way. Don’t go the way of the world where you just think that amassing possessions, and family to be the be all and end all of life.

What life is all about

There is a spiritual truth to be found out within. There’s enlightenment there, waiting for you. Freedom. Happiness. Bliss that is better than sex. The fulfilment of your own knowledge of the truth, which doesn’t depend on what anyone else says, what’s within any book, which doesn’t challenge other people. One of the signs of enlightenment is you don’t go challenge and say other people are wrong. There’s freedom from all of that. No more pride. No more having to be right. No more worrying of what other people would think of you. No more measuring others. No more measuring yourself. Great freedom of the mind coming from enlightenment.

So this is there for you. This is what life is all about – to find that enlightenment. So this is the internal peace, the freedom of the heart. Enlightenment, find that truth for yourself once and for all. The enlightenment of the Buddha, which led to the enlightenment of so many other beings, and that hasn’t stopped, will not stop, cannot stop. Many more beings will become enlightened, and you are among those beings who would become enlightened, free and happy.

I really mean happy ever after. I know that was a fairytale used to see in the old days, and they went off into the sunset and lived happily ever after. That’s what happens when you’re enlightened go off into the end of samsara. Happy ever after.

“Just as in the great ocean 

there is but one taste 

— the taste of salt — 

so in this Doctrine 

and Discipline 

there is but one taste — 

the taste of freedom”

The Buddha

Suffering in life? Here’s how to transcend it – Wisdom from a Buddhist Nun.

Suffering in life? Here’s how to transcend it – Wisdom from a Buddhist Nun.

This is an extract of a talk given by Ayya Khema on the topic of Dukkha. Ayya Khema (1923–1997) was an international Buddhist teacher, and the first Western woman to become a Theravada Buddhist nun.

Transcript

Mankind has dukkha. Each one of us has it. But, the wonderful teaching that we have is that there is a way to get beyond it.

There, we have to change our thinking a hundred and eighty degrees.

We are operating on an illusion. It is the illusion of being an individual, an identity.

You can feel it. “That’s me getting up, that’s me being dissatisfied, and it’s me having dukkha.”

The Buddhist great enlightenment explanation was not that dukkha can go away, but this delusion can go away, and then we’re beyond Dukkha.

There are moments when we feel a deep inner peacefulness. When we see a beautiful sunset, a rainbow, we hear exquisite music, watch a happy baby, and we think and immediately make up our minds that the lack of dukkha at that moment is due to the fact that there was a rainbow or a happy baby.

We are externalising. That isn’t that at all. It’s because in those moments, we were totally concentrated on what is happening that we forgot about ourselves. That’s why these moments are without dukkha. But externalising them means that we are in this case, praising the trigger. In other cases, we usually blame the trigger. They are all outside of us. What is happening within us, that’s our life.

We usually try to arrange our outer life so that it is convenient and comfortable, and there’s no reason why we shouldn’t do that. But do we arrange our inner life so that it is convenient and comfortable?

Have we ever given that any thought that it is actually possible to do that?

The promise of the Buddha that we can all get beyond dukkha is something we have to take on (with) faith at this moment because we haven’t got beyond dukkha yet. If we take such a promise, all it means is that we’re willing to try. And that’s all the Buddha asked people to do. Try it out. Try out the methods, Try out the instructions, and see whether they help.

We don’t get pass dukkha immediately. Nothing of the kind. Meditation can take dukkha away temporarily, but how long does anyone sit in meditation?

What we need to know and what we need to experience is the possibility that through seeing things in a different light, seeing ourselves in a different light, seeing dukkha universally instead of individually, we have a chance to have a totally different relationship to everything that happens in our life.

“All things are not-self”when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering.

This is the path to purification.

– Dhammapada Verse 279