Editor: This is a two-part series of Dhamma and marriage where Ai En shares her turnaround in her marriage. You can read the first article on how a monk saved her marriage here.
TLDR: I always thought of suttas as always being serious and all about practice. Having dived deeper into them, I found some that were extremely helpful in becoming a better partner to my husband.
As a practising Buddhist, I have found that the teachings of the Buddha can be incredibly helpful in improving my marriage. In this article, I will be referencing specific suttas (Buddhist scriptures) to illustrate how the principles of Buddhism can be applied in the context of a marriage relationship. Of course, for non-married couples/partners, the same principles apply!
Buddhism teaches us about the concept of non-attachment. However, this does not mean that we should not care about or be invested in our partners, but rather that we should not cling to them in an unhealthy or obsessive way. Here are 4 suttas that you may find helpful for you and your partner!
Metta Matters
In the Metta (Loving-kindness) Sutta, the Buddha teaches us to cultivate loving-kindness and to let go of craving and aversion.
This is particularly relevant in a romantic relationship, where it is easy to become attached to certain expectations or desires that our partner may not be able to fulfil.
For example, expecting our partner to come home daily with a smile on their face or for them to be always saying ‘yes’ to our whims and fancies.
This perception of an ever-bright and smiling partner makes us love them more conditionally. We then easily fall into ill-will and agitation if they fail to fulfil that perception.
Letting go of these fixed, unrealistic projections and cultivating a sense of loving-kindness towards our partner can create a more harmonious and fulfilling relationship. We wish them to be well and happy without inserting our ‘self’ into it.
We are content with our effort in putting the conditions for their happiness in motion, whether happiness happens is beyond our control. This makes us less likely to say ‘I did this just for you to feel x way, why don’t you feel x about it?’
I must admit that it is a constant battle to love my partner unconditionally. However, being aware of unrealistic expectations that I might harbour in my mind is a great reminder to have metta no matter what.
“Contented and easily satisfied, Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.” – Metta Sutta
Not taking relationships for granted
Another important principle in Buddhism is the concept of impermanence. The Buddha taught that everything around us is subject to change, whether we like it or not. Our loved ones grow old and our friendships strengthen and weaken. Nothing is constant.
The Upajjhatthana Sutta, where Buddha teaches about the five recollections that we should develop, is a great daily practice which we can bring into our relationship.
I am subject to aging and I have not gone beyond aging.
I am subject to illness and I have not gone beyond illness.
I am subject to death and I have not gone beyond death.
I am subject to impermanence and I must be parted and separated from everyone and everything dear and agreeable to me
I am the owner of my actions. I receive the results of my actions. Dukkha arises through my actions and I am associated to my actions. Whatever I do I will inherit.
I find point 4 most useful for my relationship as Buddha reminds us that separation from our loved ones is inevitable, hence we don’t hold tightly to anger/pain towards others.
“All beings that come and go, that pass away and undergo rebirth, must be parted and separated from everyone and everything dear and agreeable.” – Upajjhatthana Sutta
By recognising the impermanence of our relationship, we can be more compassionate and considerate towards our partner and work towards the mutual benefit of both individuals. Not going to bed angry with each other because tomorrow is not promised has been one way I keep my “grudge-holding” period with my loved ones extremely short.
By asking yourself ‘What if tonight’s the last time I say goodnight to my partner? What should I do?’, this thought knocks out our negativity and makes us focus on the present.
When we don’t take each other for granted, we have more space for forgiveness and willingness to do our best for one another.
Speech matters
The Buddha also emphasised the importance of communication in creating healthy relationships. In the Vacasutta, the Buddha teaches about the importance of speaking at the right time, truthfully, affectionately, beneficially, and with a mind of goodwill.
In a relationship, it is essential to be open and honest with our partner and to communicate our needs and feelings in a kind and respectful way. This sutta’s notion of ‘timely’ pointed out the flaws in my communication style. I usually delivered ‘feedback’ or spoke about the challenging behaviours of my husband after his long day of work.
Yes, I did it affectionately, truthfully, beneficially and with a mind of good-will. But it was at the wrong time. This often led to me lamenting how my ‘good’ advice fell on deaf ears. This sutta helped me realise that timeliness was super important.
This often means holding back our comments until the issue is resolved. I have now learned to talk about the challenges in our relationship on weekends when we are both more well-rested and willing and emotionally available to listen.
By practising good communication, we can create a strong foundation for our relationship and avoid misunderstandings and conflicts.
One of the most challenging aspects of a marriage relationship can be dealing with conflict. The Buddha recognised that conflict is a natural part of any relationship and taught about the importance of resolving conflicts in a peaceful and harmonious way.
“It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.” -Vacasutta
Seeing the good even on the toughest days
In the Dutiyaāghātapaṭivinayasutta Sutta, the Buddha advises us on dealing with people we resent. By practising this attitude of openness to compromise and seeing the good in our partners, we can more effectively navigate conflicts in our relationships.
The Buddha dives deeper into how we can deal with our resentment depending on the type of personality that we face. In relationships, our partners are constantly changing in mind-states just like us. Some days our partner can say really mean things to us that can lead to resentment.
For example, they can be really kind in their actions but unskillful in their speech on a bad day. The Buddha uses the analogy of drinking from a pond filled with moss and aquatic plants. One sweeps away the moss and other plants to drink from the pond.
We ignore a person’s unskillful behaviour and focus on their skilful behaviour. We separate a negative act from the actor, allowing us space to return kindness even when it is difficult.
“How should you get rid of resentment for a person whose behaviour by way of speech is impure, but whose behaviour by way of body is pure? Suppose there was a lotus pond covered with moss and aquatic plants. Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d plunge into the lotus pond, sweep apart the moss and aquatic plants, drink from their cupped hands, and be on their way. In the same way, at that time you should ignore that person’s impure behaviour by way of speech and focus on their pure behaviour by way of the body. That’s how to get rid of resentment for that person.” – Dutiyaāghātapaṭivinayasutta
Conclusion
In conclusion, the principles of Buddhism can be incredibly helpful in improving a relationship, by practising non-attachment, recognising the ephemeral nature of our relationship, engaging in honest and kind communication, and seeing the good of others in a peaceful manner.
By incorporating these teachings into our daily lives, we can create a strong foundation for a lifetime of happiness and joy in our marriage.
Wise Steps:
Know which sutta can help in your relationship and memorise it! You never know when you might need it
Life is uncertain. Taking your partner for granted can lead to many unnecessary regrets!
Editor: This is a two-part series of Dhamma and marriage where Ai En shares her turnaround in her marriage. The second part can be found here !
TLDR: My relationship with my husband was going stale and we both felt a sense of draining affection in our marriage; attending a Dhamma talk was a pivotal change for our relationship.
The salvation of marriage by a monk’s word, of course, sounds dramatic. Nevertheless, it is a true experience that changed things for my marriage.
My hope is that sharing my experience would give couples the courage to talk about their relationship and recollect why they are together in the first place.
Marriage was paradise
When my partner and I first got married, we were both young and naive at the age of 27. Having met in university, we quickly knew we were right for another as we liked the same Char Kway Teow store and loved the same arthouse movies.
We happily said our vows 5 years after dating because ROM (Registry of Marriage) said we had to do it and not because we thought much of it.
“Will you love him, comfort him, honour and keep him in sickness and in health and forsaking all others, be faithful to him, so long as you both shall live?” the solemnizer asked.
Such generic lines didn’t hold much value for us, we just wanted to get through the ROM and arduous wedding lunch out of the way and live our lives happily ever after.
Of course, things didn’t turn out that way.
The decline
We started to see growing misunderstandings and conflicts as we lived together.
Different habits emerged. Different ways of money usage. I love to save while he was okay with moments of YOLO (You-Only-Live-Once) spending (because life is anicca [Pali term: impermanent], so might as well spend it, he believes). I would often chide him for butchering the Dhamma phrase of impermanence to justify random spending.
We like to think of ourselves as simple people who have had little arguments. However, it was clear we were growing apart.
We were leading separate lives and took each other for granted.
Yes, we shared a bed, but our lifestyles couldn’t be more different. He worked shift hours while I worked a 9-5 job. I did consulting work while he was a shift-work engineer.
I felt that caring for him meant supporting all his hobbies and endeavours while he felt caring for me meant giving me gifts. FYI: Gifts won’t hold your marriage/ relationship together.
At difficult times, I silently questioned, “Did I marry the right guy?” I wasn’t sure how long we could ‘stand’ each other in a lukewarm relationship.
One word
As a Buddhist by birth, I am not one to care too much about Buddhism and its practice. The teachings were an afterthought.
However, these marital challenges got me to speak to a colleague who was a Buddhist practitioner and she introduced me to a witty monk, Ajahn Brahm.
I skeptically plugged into a recording of his Dhamma talk after she persuaded me. It was on marriage. Below is the excerpt which talked about how Ajahn Brahm solemnises Buddhist weddings and stuns newlywed couples with his humour.
~
At the right moment in the proceedings, usually, after the rings have been exchanged, I look into the eyes of the new bride and tell her, “You are a married woman now. From this moment on, you must never think of yourself.” She immediately nods and smiles sweetly.
Then I look at the groom and say, “You are now a married man. You also must not think of yourself anymore.” I don’t know what it is about guys, but the groom usually pauses for a few seconds before saying “Yes.”
Still looking at the groom, I continue, “And from this time on, you must never think of your wife.” Then quickly turning to the bride, I say to her, “And you must not think of your husband from now on.”
Confusion is a very effective teaching device. Once people are engaged in trying to solve a riddle, then you can teach them the answer and they pay attention. “Once you are married,” I explain, “you should not think of yourselves; otherwise you will be making no contribution to your marriage.
Also, once you are married, you should not always think of your partner; otherwise you will only be giving, giving, giving, until there’s nothing left in your marriage. “Instead, once you are married, think only of ‘us.’ You are in this together.” The couple then turn to each other and smile.
They get it straight away. Marriage is about “us,” not about me, not about him, not about her. To make sure they understand “The Secret,” I ask them, “When any problem arises in your marriage, whose problem is it?” “Our problem,” they answer together. “Very good!” I say with a grin.
~
“Instead, once you are married, think only of ‘us.’ You are in this together.”
That word ‘us’ compelled tears through my usually tear-resistant eyes.
My husband and I were living together and yet apart. We were ‘caring’ for each other and doing ‘what’s best’ for either me or him, but never for ‘us’.
As we stopped seeing ourselves as ‘us’ and instead as individuals, our lives would inadvertently drift apart. Resentment would arise from unfulfilled wants and demands from each other. We resent one another for either giving ‘not enough’ or giving ‘the wrong thing’.
These teachings helped me to let go of my ego to see my partner in a new light. I began to understand that our relationship is not just about me and my needs, but that it is an interdependent partnership.
It is about us.
How that one word saved us
After the tear-jerker Dhamma talk, I shared the recording with my husband, who also agreed on the state of our marriage. He felt that we were ‘going through the motion’ of routines together. He felt resentful that he was giving so much on one aspect of our relationship while I ‘failed’ to deliver on others. For example, the expectations that I should wash the dishes after cooking for him or him overpaying for some of the expensive dinners we have.
However, the talk allowed him to reflect on a calculative mindset that was building in him.
After three years, we felt this pivotal change of understanding about our relationship.
We immediately discussed how we could do things differently as ‘us’ and not as individuals. We then decided that we needed to do the following:
Find rituals: Identify meaningful and tangible activities that we can do as a couple and challenge ourselves with. The ritual must be something that ‘us’ can see incremental growth in. Binge-watching HBO Max, Netflix doesn’t count as tangible!
Hold MGMs: Monthly general meetings (MGMs) helped us talk about what we appreciated about one another, how we could improve and also where we would like to be supported.
Meditate at least 2 times a week together: This wholesome activity gave us the opportunity to do something deep and spiritual together. If your partner is non-Buddhist, try to introduce mindfulness-based activities, like gardening or pottery! For us, the 2 times a week as is when our schedules align. Make it work!
These ‘solutions’ arose from the idea of ‘us’ and how we could strengthen that tie between us.
Our marriage is now happier and more fulfilling than ever before. I am grateful to the Dhamma for helping us to get to this point. Thanks to Ajahn Brahm’s one word ‘US’, we saved the marriage.
I hope that this one word ‘us’ encourages you to rethink relationships that are dear to you.
May you and your loved ones be well and happy always.
Wise Steps:
How often do we take our loved ones for granted? Reflecting on this brings awareness to our blindspots in the relationship
How often do you use ‘we’ in a relationship instead of ‘I, me, myself’?
Find your couple rituals, hold your MGMs and meditate together!
is from Malaysia and is a Masters of Speech Pathology student at the University of Melbourne. She is the current Secretary of Vimokkharam Forest Hermitage, and resonates most with the Dhamma of the Thai Forest Tradition.
Nalanda Robson
is a PhD graduate and Japanese teaching associate at Monash University. She is of half-Thai-Australian descent. She is serving Vimokkharam Forest Hermitage as a sub-committee member.
About u awake podcast:
A space for young people to have open conversations and late-night DNMs about spirituality and Buddhism. Check them out here: Instagram, podcast.
Transcript
Kai Xin 00:00
Oh, hello, everybody. So today we have Khema and Nalanda from u awake? podcast. And this is a collaborative episode. I have with me Cheryl, my co-host. We’re going to talk about something really interesting called a friend breakup. It’s going to be quite juicy because all of us, I guess, as we move on to adult life, have probably started to fade away from some circle of friends. And some of us might have deliberately walked away from some circle of friends as well. So the starting question I have is, has any of you deliberately chosen to sever ties?
Nalanda 00:43
Okay, I’ll just go straight into the story, the trauma story. Let’s go. Let’s go. Yeah, let’s go. Okay, so I came to Australia when I was nine. A little bit of context, I grew up in Bangkok, a very Thai traditional kind of girl, very soft-spoken. Then I came to Australia, and all the kids were, whoa, amazing and confident in themselves. And I was just trying to find myself. Anyways, I got a lot of friends afterwards. In grade six, I was bullied. This was in Primary School. Last year of school, everyone, in this particular school, they’re very competitive. And I was in this nice girls’ group. But unfortunately, due to some misunderstanding, I was ganged up on. It came on very suddenly by the way. And it was more like psychological bullying.
And I didn’t really know what was happening. I didn’t know why everyone was ignoring me. And I went home and tried to figure it out. MSN, if you guys remember the day before, you know, everyone’s going on MSN. I come back home to try to figure it all out and piece all the issues together on MSN and I realised that it was turning into cyberbullying. So, from school bullying, very psychological, then it was cyberbullying. After a while, I think it was, time for me to move on. And my parents were sort of very receptive to how I was doing at home. They realised that I was getting a little bit into depression and so they moved schools. And I think that the physical moving of the schools really broke the ties of our friendship, even though I very much wanted to still hang on. I wanted to solve, somehow solve, whatever puzzle this was. And I very much respected this group of friends even though they hurt me quite a bit. I wanted to come back. I wanted to make it work. I was headstrong.
But anyways, moving to a different school, opened up my eyes. It was like a completely different world. In this new school, great friends, and everyone treated everybody else equally. There was no all-girls gang, another Malaysian gang, the Sri Lanka gang, Aussie girls, just Aussie girls. No ganging up on each other. Kids were just kids and very respectful towards each other. And I love that is a completely different environment. (Even though it was) just a few kilometres apart from each other but the level of competition in education also made the first school super stressed. All these kids were very stressed. But the second school was very relaxed.
And so I think, yes, I severed those ties, but I think because my parents physically removed me from that school, therefore, yeah, we just never came. I came back in contact with them, but it was through a lot of fear.
It took me like 10 years before I could actually speak to that particular person again, who was the head of the gang. I met her at a train station for example and I just couldn’t meet her, I couldn’t. She thought I was very rude. You know, you still have your ego from year six. What do you, ‘Oh, come on time to move on girl’. But I just couldn’t. I couldn’t physically, look at her. So, she thought I was ignoring her. Eventually, in our 20s, we met again at the train station. And I just went up to her and I hugged her. She hugged me first. And I just hugged her and I was just like, you know what we need to move on. Like, it’s been ages. Somehow, that day, I felt so much better. There was a jigsaw that was missing in my life. Sometimes I would go to bed and I would keep thinking about this lady, from a girl she’s grown into a lady, and there’s just one person in my life who I just didn’t quite catch up with her. Eventually, that day came and it was just amazing.
Cheryl 04:44
What kind of mental state were you in when you gave her the hug back? How did you reconcile? Was it just a thing where just time passing to kind of just forgive her and you’re just like, ‘it’s time to just,’
Nalanda 04:58
I was just in the moment basically. She hugged me first. It was a safe space then yeah. There was no judgement anymore. She let go, and she relinquished all of the anger. And she showed it to me first. Not through some wording, but through the action of just coming in and hugging. Because sometimes you meet someone in the street, right? It’s very awkward. Do I shake hands? Or do I hug? Or do I just ignore, what? You just walk past or pretend I didn’t notice and then just quickly go home. ‘Busy, I’m busy.’ But she came up to me very deliberately and hugged me. And that was a very big powerful moment. I was just like, I thank you so much, 15 years, you know, of me thinking of her because I really liked her. I really respected her. Some misunderstandings happen. Yeah, we yeah. It’s pretty powerful.
Cheryl 05:44
And it’s healing for both parties as well.
Nalanda 05:47
I don’t even know what kind of healing she went through. Probably a lot because she was a class captain. She was a school captain. And then the principal put her on the stage and basically humiliated her in front of the whole school and said that she was a bully. And they took away her title. She cried in front of the school. This is really dramatic. Yeah, yeah. I think traumatising for her and traumatising for me. So, yeah.
Cheryl 06:17
Was it because you reported her?
Nalanda 06:19
My parents reported her. Yeah, I didn’t report it. I didn’t want to report her. I wanted to, you know, come back be strong. And yeah, that sort of thing.
Cheryl 06:28
Yeah, I really related to your story, because I was bullied as well. And actually, for many years, I always imagined the moment that I would meet my bully again. And I would always think in my head and it became some sort of recurring nightmare. So I was like, This is what I’m gonna tell you how you hurt me, blah, blah, blah. But then I was thinking realistically if I see her I would, I would just turn the other way. And even to this day, I have not met her face to face although Singapore’s very small. But when I see people who look like her, I immediately just die inside and turn back into the 15-year-old that I was when I was bullied now just like, look to the floor and run. Yeah, right. Right. It’s very nice to hear your story. Yeah.
Nalanda 07:07
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I think some people can relate. Later on, though, in Australia, the whole issue is a societal issue. Now, lots of kids are getting bullied. And in my time, it’s not something that I could identify as me getting bullied. It’s just having trouble with your friends. But these days, the word bully is very much (in the) front and centre of the media, and it’s very much in the headlines. Everybody knows bullying at school is bad. But back in the day, it was just, whatever, you know, it wasn’t dealt with. So I think more attention to the matter is a great thing.
Cheryl 07:47
Thanks so much for sharing. I’m curious about Khema’s story as well Kai Xin’s story about any friendships that you guys have severed in your life.
Khema 07:55
I don’t think there’s anything as dramatic as what Nalanda went through. But I think it was more ofwhen I was transitioning into adulthood, and I just grow as a person and I no longer what I was when I was younger, in high school and stuff. But then I felt like I had to let go of some connections because it wasn’t serving me anymore. It wasn’t nourishing for me. Or on the other hand, it was actually, I found it toxic.
There are many examples throughout my life. But then what comes to mind is during the pandemic, I was in a very vulnerable place mentally. And I couldn’t face certain people whom I knew from high school, and I found their presence quite unsafe, it made me feel unsafe. So I had to slowly phase them out. You know, people from your past (might) interact with you, based on their preconceived perception of you that they have from (when) they knew you in high school. And even though you’re not that person anymore, they still put you into that box. So I need it to let go of those connections, because I’m not like that anymore. And I didn’t want to remain like that. In order for me to keep growing. I needed to let go of those connections. That’s just one example.
Cheryl 09:23
Were there any things that they did like specifically to make you feel unsafe?
Khema 09:28
Um, I think it was more of stuff from the past, where maybe they’ve said stuff to me that really left a mark and I used to be a really insecure person. During the pandemic, where I came home, you know, I lived overseas for so many years and then came home and suddenly it’s like, you’re locked up in your house and all these traumas started coming up because I was in this home that I grew up in when I was young, right? So all the trauma, all the unresolved emotions and stuff start coming up. And I was going through a real metamorphosis at a time when I had to look at this stuff and heal. So I just couldn’t at that time. Yeah, I was very hardcore at that time. I was very like, oh, you can’t go in the space where you got hurt. You can’t go in the same space. You need to put yourself in a healthy environment in order to grow out of those toxic patterns. Yeah, super vague. But yeah.
Cheryl 10:22
It’s almost like acknowledging your own capacity to know what kinds of environments serve you so that you can be safe enough to look into your old wounds, and your old traumas, and work with them at a very acceptable pace. And the people who don’t facilitate that, unfortunately, for time being you need to kind of just set them aside until you’re ready to again, you know, face them.
Khema 10:50
Yeah, that’s right. It’s like rehab. Let’s say I’m an alcoholic, I can’t keep going back to alcohol, right? It doesn’t make sense. So yeah, I needed to be in a healthy environment where I felt safe, safe enough and relaxed enough to explore because there’s a lot of exploring, I think, when you’re healing, finding what’s right for you and stuff. So yeah.
Cheryl 11:09
Thanks for sharing that. I think my story of a friend breaking up is very similar. So for both of you who don’t know, I don’t identify as a straight person. I get attracted to women as well. This is important for the context. So, I had a very good friend, and I was developing feelings for her. Then it got to a point where it was a little bit unhealthy because she was dating someone else. And I was kind of convincing myself that we are just friends and nothing more would happen. And I think it got very unhealthy to the point that I felt very upset when I see them happy if you get what I mean. So then I decided to do a very deliberate friend breakup, I need to stop talking to you so that I can sort out my own feelings and stop in a way lying to myself that I think we can just be friends.
Nalanda 11:57
Sorry, this is a song. This is like a whole MV.
Khema 12:00
Yeah, it’s similar when you try and stay friends with your ex. Sometimes that’s possible. I think it’s up to your capacity, like you said, yeah.
Cheryl 12:09
Yeah, so, basically, I texted her and a friend break up with her and I was listening to a whole Sam Smith album, on the way back crying and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. But then I knew deep inside me that I could only be friends with her if I could stop thinking about her. And I know that I could live perfectly fine without her in my life. So I just worked on myself, did my stuff just found out different interests. And I think I got to a point where I really didn’t think about her. And I could just say hi without feeling anxious, and then that’s when we reconnected again. And unfortunately, we grew very different after that. So the friendship just evolved. We were no longer best friends. But we were just normal friends. We had great shared memories together. Yeah. So that was my experience.
Khema 12:56
Yeah, I feel sometimes you have to almost like, Okay, if you tell yourself, I’m going to temporarily put this friendship on hold. Let’s see if I can come back to it in the future. But then sometimes that doesn’t happen, too. And I think it’s okay. I think as we become adults, I’m realising more and more like one of my best friends, she said it’s like a revolving door, these relationships. But you just drift apart or you lose touch, but that’s okay.
Nalanda 13:20
You must be in a very good place now to be able to talk about it. Because yeah, it could still really hurt. And does she know? Sorry, did she know that y ou really, really liked her?
Cheryl 13:32
Yeah, she knew from the person I knew from the start that she was in a relationship. And I think because we really enjoy each other’s company, genuinely as friends. So we were just kind of thinking like, yeah, we’ll be fine with it. We’re just friends list. You just want friends and obviously being Buddhist. No sexual misconduct. And that was very clear. I don’t touch people inappropriately, and things like that. But I think it’s just, it’s just that very sneaky thing of never knowing you’re not honest to yourself until it really creeps on to you then you’re like, Oh, shit. Yeah, but Kai Xin, what’s your story? We have all shared. We’re all waiting on the edge to hear your story.
Kai Xin 14:15
My story is quite different. So I did deliberately walk away from a group of friends. That was in Polytechnic. And it’s quite, it’s quite strange because this group of friends will always hang out with one another. And I’m kind of like part of their clique, right? But I just find the whole setup to be really toxic because they will be gossiping about other people. They would be talking behind people’s backs, and I feel really bad about it. Like if they’re doing this with like us around, then will they talk bad about me as well? I just don’t feel good.
And I think over time, I try to not hang out with them as much but it’s really tricky because they keep asking me out and I say I won’t be free. And then they keep rescheduling until one of the friends, you know, texted me on the side and say, Hey, you know, we are trying to find a date where all of us can make it. And I have to just find a way to break the news just to this one person, like a trusted friend in the group and say, yeah, actually, I’m not so comfortable hanging out with the clique anymore. And perhaps, yeah, just exclude me moving forward.
And I think in hindsight now, I might have still carried on that perception of them being toxic, but I think it’s really their behaviour and what they talk about, and to what Khema mentioned, about how sometimes, you know, people shoebox us in this category, so they know us in high school, and then now they still think that we are like that person. So I feel that it’s quite a mindset shift, because I’m thinking maybe they have also grown to become more mature adults, and they don’t gossip anymore, and they’re much more wholesome to be with. If I were to see them, would I want to form that connection? Or would I still hold on to the past belief that ‘No, they are dangerous,’ which I don’t think they are. They’re really a nice person.
I think it’s just a thing that, you know, at that age, that’s how you bond, which I think it’s unfortunate, you bond over people’s misfortune or, you know, gossiping. So I do hope to see if there’s any other way that I can connect with them. If I get a chance to.
Khema 16:23
Sounds like, hearing your story, you just intuitively didn’t feel safe around them. And, I think, the more we practise and like try to cultivate wholesomeness and try to be around wholesome people, then it’s like, you’re very used to feeling safe, especially with my friends. So it’s like, in those environments, you just don’t feel that same level of safety. And I find for me, as I’ve grown in my practice, and also as an adult, I just naturally don’t gravitate towards people who just don’t make me feel safe. It could be because of their speech, you find that they’re gossiping, or whatever, my mind doesn’t analyse like that anymore. It’s really just an intuitive thing. It’s sometimes you just have that sense of Oh, I feel really safe. And these people are really wholesome.
I was actually looking into my phone last night because I was like, looking for the quote by Ajahn Jayasaro. It’s the Mangala sutta. But the way he phrases it is, I love it so much. Because you always hear ‘don’t associate with the fools, associate with the wise’. It sounds a bit like, Okay, you need to judge and you need to determine who’s a good person and who’s a bad person. But I like the way he phrases it, which is avoiding people who drag you down or encourage the worst in you associating with people who lift you up and encourage the best in you. And it’s so much kinder. It allows you to be more intuitive. I don’t think it’s a matter of, Oh, these people are dangerous. I shouldn’t hang out with them. There is a degree of judgement in thinking that.
I think for me now it’s become more like, Yeah, I’m open to whoever. And I can be friendly. I can see whoever comes through as a friend, in a goodwill kind of way. But I don’t have to associate with them closely. I can be friendly with them. They asked me to hang out. I’ll think about it if I don’t feel comfortable. And I know my No, there’s no pressure on myself either. But it doesn’t mean ‘no, like, please stay away.’. You know.
Cheryl 18:27
It’s like garlic to the vampire or something.
Nalanda 18:34
Yeah, and you’re giving them a chance as well to see if they’ve changed, which is great, which is karuna (compassion) and a bit of metta in there as well.
Khema 18:44
Yeah. And I think it’s also like, well, if you look at it, people who have these qualities, they may also need good friends, right? I think if we have the capacity and if we have enough strength in us, and so we can be that great friend. Like, we don’t have to try to make them a project. Yeah, just be natural and hang out, in my experience. You offer that safety to others, they also gravitate towards you. And then you just start hanging out. And then they start changing. But you don’t have that expectation. You know? Yeah, that’s a whole other thing.
Nalanda 19:16
That’s great. I think you just hit the nail on its head again, Khema. Great!
Cheryl 19:20
I’m just thinking, how realistic it is. Because I feel that I tend to subconsciously judge people, and I feel like, you know you used the words ‘drag you down or lift you up’? I just feel like okay, these people, if I hang out with them, my energy gets drained. And then I would kind of classify that, okay, I hang out with them, I get dragged down because we go there we talk about gossip, always surrounded by alcohol, blah, blah, blah, things like that. And I would just judge them and want to withdraw myself and hang out with other people like Dharma friends or other non-Dharma friends as well. And I think last time when I’ve I started Buddhism, I got very into this like, okay, only Dharma friends are great friends. Everyone else is like, Haiya!
Khema 20:10
Thank you so much for bringing that up because I also have the same experience and you can turn that into you are like better than everyone else. It can turn into that because it’s like, you’re looking more at the Buddhist identity. It’s like what determines someone as a Dharma friend. It becomes a thing of okay Buddhists, non-Buddhists, there’s no in between, like, I’m going to only hang out with the Buddhists. But I find that that can limit you too because it’s your own echo chamber. And then you also create a judgement towards other people. But I think over time, I’ve shifted towards like wholesomeness, like what’s wholesome. So it’s really people that nourish you. They just have the Dhamma in their heart.
Nalanda 20:52
I was just at the temple like today, right. And there was this group of interfaith people, who are sort of half Catholic dabbling in Buddhism identity as Catholic, but also, in the framework of Buddhism. They are very mixed and they’re very open-minded, and Ajahn, who’s the abbot at this temple, said, basically, if you’re all wholesome, and you’re all going towards the same thing of compassion and kindness, being amiable, working towards the same goal, I don’t see why there shouldn’t be a way of us working together. Faiths shouldn’t just clash. You know. Catholics, Jesus Christ, talked about the same thing. Well, actually, basically, the foundational of each religion talk about goodness, kindness, and good qualities in human being and cultivating those qualities. Don’t see why we can all just, you know, work together. It’s so similar that why should we be fighting? Do you know what I’m saying? So, to hear Khema’s point there of just even a monk, you know, saying this, other people are involved. Other people who are from other faiths can be our friends as well, based on this idea of just wholesomeness and accepting everybody, yeah, might not need to, just judge others all the time, based on the identity of being a Buddhist, yeah, everyone can be our friend. And we should work towards accepting lots of people to be our friends, not just because they’re Buddhists.
Kai Xin 22:23
I think that’s so true. Because if we were to hold on like an us-versus-them mentality, it hinders our practice, as well as this form of, you know, conceit, and judgement, lack of compassion. And ultimately, we need good friends in order to nudge us forward to free our hearts. And if we feel like it’s stifling whether we are just hanging around with Buddhist friends or you know, other friends who we don’t call Buddhists, I think it can still be really wholesome, if we hold on to the similarities and the virtues and just wholesome attitudes. And
I’m also thinking, sometimes we judge like, hey, is this person a good friend? Or is it not a good friend? But do we even check the boxes of having qualities of being a good enough friend to be by their side. Sometimes, I don’t even have those right? Then, who I am to judge? We’re all work in progress. So I think it’s always like a two-way thing, we have to look inwards. I think the practice kind of just gets more and more subtle as we move along.
Nalanda 23:23
That’s great. This friend supported me during the time I was bullied. She was basically the only friend I had when I was bullied, just connecting the stories together. But she’s very, very different from me. And as we grew up, became so different, even more different, especially in our 20s. She’s from a different religion. I’m Buddhist. I won’t go into specifics in case she’s listening to this. But she loves politics, football, law, and I was into music, language, and dance, completely different. And felt like every single time we meet up, I was trying because she’s a childhood friend. I appreciated her since 10 years ago, when she used to point at me.
I was just trying to like it, but there was so many differences in our lifestyle and our perspective. I was trying just for the sake of friendship. And I think that in itself was like pushing, I was really trying to push. Every single time we meet up there was a bit of distance. But I was just like, yeah, trying trying to listen to her. And she was a little bit confident in herself. And she was always talking, talking, talking, she dominated the conversations all the time. I was a good listener. I’m a good friend, because 10 years ago, she was a really good friend to me, even though we’re super different. But anyways, it’s strained.
However, I do see value in it based on the fact that these differences allowed me to understand, a different demographic of a person who I would never really be in. For example, She loves Trump. I don’t really like Trump. But I can understand now from her perspective, why people would like Trump. She’s like, this one person in this huge demographic of a world that I would probably never tap into because I don’t have an interest in it. She’s opened that world for me. And it’s exactly what Khema says. We shouldn’t have just bubbles of friends who are our echo chambers to sort of build our own ego. Yeah, yeah, agreeing with each other all the time. Having some discourse and discussion and debates makes you grow, you really grow. Like I understand now, why some people would love Trump. But she was the one who told me that. And then we had this amazing political debate. And I learned stuff from people who disagree with me and I disagree back. But it’s nice. You know, it’s a kind of like a nice intellectual discussion. We’re so different still, from time to time, we still meet up. Not very often. But I think those are still valuable friendships that I can say, I can call a friend.
Cheryl 25:48
And I think what you just mentioned falls into the category of friendship, where it’s really for you to kind of open your worldview and open your perspective. I’m just curious, to everyone here if you have other categories of friendships, and how do you define these friendships? And this is a very important question because it also kind of helps us to discern what kind of friends we want in our life and whether we should continue to nurture these friendships. Maybe I’ll pick Kai Xin.
Kai Xin 26:20
As for me, I’m really practical. Also, because I’m an introvert, I don’t socialise that much. It just drains me. So I wouldn’t say I have a lot of close friends. But I have friends who, like since high school, you know, we meet up once a year, and we can go on for hours. Recently, we just came back from a trip in JB. And we literally talked throughout the entire night. We arrived at about 9pm and then we talked through the night till 4am. And we realise, okay, we really need to sleep otherwise, the next day, you know, we would be zombified. But it’s nice. And we don’t have to meet all the time.
And I have friends who I met when I was travelling as well. I went to Amaravati many years ago and met this Thai lady. And we became good friends and also meet up once a year when I go over to Thailand, sometimes I would stay at her place, I’ll meet her parents, and then we’ll just you know, tour around the neighbourhood. And it just feels like I have known them for ages. And it’s a deep bond.
But then there are friends who I would go and consult for things that they specialised in, you know, like, if it’s finance, or is it about spirituality, there’s always these few Dhamma friends whom I think are really wise and I would go and consult them. So I wouldn’t say I have like one single friend whom I deliberately nurture the friendship. Actually, it’s something I want to learn because I feel like I’ve been pretty laid back and I don’t take enough initiative. Yeah, I’m not sure about you guys.
Khema 27:54
I won’t again, I don’t really like to categorise things. But I think for me, all my friendships are very intentional. I think all relationships in my life are very intentional. And so not Friendship Breakups, but I probably have like, really drifted away from a lot of people in my life over the course of life. And so the people that I am friends with and have and maintain those friendships with like, generally, all of them are just super nourishing and add value all those friendships individually. And so I do, I don’t know, take the time and effort to maintain them and show up in those relationships. I think even though I don’t like to categorise, there are very clear categories. I guess, how I sort of differentiate is based on how close I am and how safe I feel and what I can talk about and it’s like, I don’t know, Nalanda you’re gonna have to correct me but I heard before Ajahn Jayasaro said like there are two types of friends you have eat-friends.
Nalanda 29:00
Puen gin (เพื่อน กิน). This is Thai by the way. It means eat-friends.
Khema 29:04
Yep.
Cheryl 29:05
Oh, that’s a legit term? Wow
Khema 29:08
So you have eat-friends. Friends that Oh, you want to eat, you jio (ask/invite) them or they jio you. And your friendship is at that level where you just have fun. And then you have die-friends.
Nalanda 29:18
Puen dai (เพื่อน ตาย)
Khema 29:19
That’s right. So friends who die for you. So Ajahn Jayasaro says like everyone in the Sangha is a die-friend. Right? And so I think for me, I feel like a lot of my friendships are at that level where there’s just so much love for each other that okay, I’m not gonna speak for my friends and say they’ll die for me. I’m not gonna die for them, but
Nalanda 29:39
I’ll die for your Khema.
Khema 29:39
Awww. There’s so much love going on here. Straight up, straight up right now. Whether you would die for that friend or they would die for you. I have friends in uni. Obviously. We have a lot of fun together. It was also very meaningful. We help each other in our studies and stuff help each other in life. We’re there for each other international students, you know, sometimes you need those relationships. And then just wholesome friends, just wholesome close friends whom you can talk to about matters of the heart. And I think for me, the highest level is like Dharma friends, or spiritual friends, like they don’t even have to be Buddhist, but they just got your back. They’re really like the die-friends, you know. People like Nalanda. For me, Ajahn; My Ajahn. And it’s like when you can talk about death, or we can talk about the real shit, you know. I’m sorry, do you guys swear on your podcasts? You can beat me up. But when you can talk about these things, and it’s like in those moments show up for each other. That for me is like the highest level, right.
Cheryl 30:54
Are they fluid? First of all, do the people change categories and do the topics change categories as well?
Kai Xin 30:59
It’s like some ranking system.
Khema 31:01
Again, I don’t like ranking and categorising. But people are fluid, right? They’re not boxed up. It’s not black and white. So it’s like, people are always changing. Relationships are always changing. Some people leave the group completely. And that’s cool. Because life is a revolving door. But just bring continue bringing wholesomeness and living the Dharma, and then bring it into these friendships, and they just go whichever way they’re meant to go.
Nalanda 31:28
I feel like if they’re worth your effort and worth the investment, sometimes, even the friends with whom you have less effort, you can try and like still work on it. So I have a couple of friends who are like diehard friends, I went to camps with them, and I went to high school with them. These are very, very good friends. They do have their flaws and there are certain topics that I wouldn’t talk to them about, because it turns them into like, a person that I don’t want to associate with. But essentially, as a whole person, this person is very nice. This is a very nice person, this is still a wholesome person.
And no one is black and white like that. So these people are grey, and these people are, like you said work in progress, right? So I give them a chance. You know, I’m saying like, especially if we’ve gone through, gone through a huge chunk of life with them, we see them grow, and I think is about first of all, a lot of compassion to them. And if they’re hurt, they’re hurt for a reason someone hurt them, or that is like an ongoing trauma for them. That’s why they’re acting out a certain way, their reactions or their behaviours are from something that something sometimes they can’t control. So I don’t want to like, ‘Ew! I don’t want to associate with you. You just said this. Bye!’. Sometimes I work on it. And slowly, if it’s not workable, if I feel like for my own safety, I want to protect my time, protect my resource, protect my own feelings, I will slowly shift away. But sometimes I come back. So giving distance and a bit of time is a great thing and just revisiting from time to time. Hey, Kelsey, are you okay? Are you still that angry, bitter person? If they’ve changed then oh, Kelsey, you’re great. Let’s go back to hangout again.
Kai Xin 33:18
Is Kelsey, a real person?
Nalanda 33:19
No.
Kai Xin 33:23
Kelsey, if you’re listening.
Khema 33:29
Yeah, I think that’s the nature of friendship, right? Once I started coming out off like the categorising between Buddhists and non-Buddhists, this friendship what we call friendship, which is like when you talk about Metta, it’s so tied into the idea of friendship and goodwill. Everything can be accepted, everything. Whatever your unwholesomeness everything. We just keep cultivating that goodwill that is the foundation of the friendship and as long as this continues to be nourishing and beneficial, then yeah.
Nalanda 34:00
And sometimes it’s nourishing and beneficial to heal someone else or to sometimes be hurt from time to time. Be hurt but feel like we’re growing together. Maybe there’s some sort of nourishment and benefit to going into a relationship and then trying to work it out. Even though you’re both hurting but you know the outcome would be nice. It’s like a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship right now I feel like I’m talking about different kinds of relationships. We’re moving into different categories. But this is something you work on. You want to work on it you really want to. You’re both hurting, but you want to work on it.
Cheryl 34:36
I think the foundation of any relationship be it friendship or romantic is the same right? It’s a work in progress and acceptance of each other’s flaws and wholesomeness, in the good and the bad that makes it makes it so fulfilling when you are working together. And I really liked the word that Khema used which was acceptance of it because I think accepting doesn’t mean agreeing or disagreeing. Accepting is really just holding space for the person to be as they are. And from that, just by holding space, you know, beautiful things evolve.
Kai Xin 35:05
Perfectly put.
Khema 35:06
Yeah, and I don’t think friendships all have to look the same. And it doesn’t have to be like, Okay, we have to both be growing together. Otherwise, I can’t be friends with you. Sometimes it’s like, you are the one that helps them grow, or they are the one. Like, you know, for example, Ajahn for me is like this person who’s the ultimate friend. And like, for me, it’s more about he gives to me, and I receive more from him. And sometimes you are that friend for other people. And I think as long as there’s that goodwill, so much can come out of this connection.
Kai Xin 35:39
That’s so beautiful. So it’s not just we taking but sometimes we can give as well. And I think going back to the Mangala sutta that you’ve quoted, ‘Don’t associate with the foods and associate with the wise’, that’s commonly what’s translated. In one of the Dhamma talks, Ajahn Anan was actually answering a question from a novice monk. Hey, if we don’t associate with the fools, then how would the fools ever be wise? That’s assuming that we like the wiser person, right? And I was like, Oh, that’s such a good question. Because if you take a look at the Buddha, the Buddha is such a good friend to so many people, and without his wisdom, and if he doesn’t associate with those who need his wisdom, then we wouldn’t be able to see the Dharma today. There’s no like, you know, generations of Dharma being passed down. And I think what Ajahn Anan said was so beautiful. So it goes back to the capacity.
First, we have to be honest with ourselves, do we have the wisdom in order to discern what is beneficial to us, and what’s not beneficial? If we don’t even have that, and we mingle around with people who have unwholesome habits, it’s very easy for us to be swayed off the path. But then once we stabilise our Dharma practice, then we can be that pillar of support for others, to then be the light that shines. But of course, it’s a very subtle thing, because of conceit, you always can’t see it when you’re in it. Right? It’s always in hindsight (that you see it). Hence, I think, it’s so important to then associate with people who are wiser than us to say, Hey, Kai Xin, you know, you’re being too egoistic. You think you’re better than others, but actually, you’re not. And, yeah, to be willing to oppose, I think it’s a fine balance between these two.
So thanks, Khema, for bringing that up: to give as well, rather than just take.
Cheryl 37:20
And just going back to our topic of the day, you know, talking about friend breakouts, I think at the start of the conversation, we shared a lot of different scenarios, in which we, we kind of broke off. Either through literal physical separation or a more deliberate and intentional one, like Kai Xin and my choice. Then for Khema, I think it’s, it’s more on the intentional one as well.
How do we know it’s the right time to do a friend breakup? Is there a way where we know like, Okay, this is the time, we should fade away from this person or start withdrawing contact with this person?
Nalanda 37:58
And this is like an ongoing thing between me and Khema. We have an episode on this as well, on our podcast. We talk about how to say no, and when to say no, it is an ongoing skill that we need to do everybody. Even I sometimes, you know, as an adult, I don’t know how to say no. In the past, as a girl, very young, and naive, still don’t really know how to say no and break up a relationship or when that perfect time is, I just endure the pain. You how Ajahn said, like, you just tolerate it. And sometimes it gets to a point where you really need to stop (because) it is not a dull pain anymore. It’s like a sharp pain. Yeah, but as an adult, you kind of understand these conditions a bit more, you’ve been through the situations, you’re older now. And you just don’t want to waste too much time. So you see a dull ache that is about to turn into a sharp pain, and you take action. There’s like the initiative to protect yourself, and you come in with a lot more wisdom. And you know how to say no to this relationship before. Before you start getting attacked. You protect yourself and you can stand up for yourself better, I think as an adult. Yeah.
Cheryl 39:06
But I think a lot of times the dull just feels not very pleasant, but it doesn’t feel too unpleasant either. So I find myself in a lot of situations where I don’t particularly enjoy, nor do I particularly not enjoy the company of the people. So it’s just like, it’s okay, I get my meals in while I meet my friends as well, and then get a couple of banter in. I don’t feel particularly great. I don’t feel particularly terrible after that. So it just goes on and sometimes it can go on for years, right? Because you don’t want to create drama by saying hey, I don’t want to hang out anymore to just go along and the dull pain just continues.
Kai Xin 39:46
I think it will become telling if you continuously hang out with this group of people whom you are quite hesitant to hang out with and it’s compromising other aspects of your life. Then you have to make a choice but if you do have some space. It’s like, well, I don’t mind hanging out, not liking not disliking just, you know, spending time together. I think that is still okay. It’s still healthy. But it’s really important to say ‘no’, right? Because when we say ‘no’, we are saying ‘yes’ to something more important.
So I think it is different for everybody, depending on their lifestyle, their schedule, and what they prioritise. I don’t think that’s an answer, like a model answer for everyone. For me, my clear litmus test, or yardstick would be am I hesitant to meet up with this person? And if the answer is yes, and I know it’s compromising on some other aspects of my life, I’m going to come out more stressed because I don’t have time you know, to complete my tasks, etc, then I would lean towards a ‘no’ and be skilful in rejecting.
Khema 40:50
I think to Kai Xin’s point of when you say ‘no’ to something, you’re saying ‘yes’ to something else, and why I find friend breakups to be so dramatic, is because I’m not like, you know, sitting here trying to like decide should I break up with this friend or not? It feels a bit uncomfortable. It’s more like, I’m putting my energy into other things, that gives me more joy, and uplift me more into people and spending time with those people instead. And so naturally, it’s like, I end up not having as much capacity or time to spend with other people who don’t nourish me in the same way. So it’s not as dramatic as like, ‘I don’t know, keep spending time with these people every week, but I don’t actually like them.’. It’s more of I’m already spending as much time all these people that I love and it helps me grow that like I actually don’t have the time for all these other people. And it’s more like that naturally allows things to change. And those people sometimes drift away from you. Rather than here guys, I don’t really like you anymore. So bye.
Nalanda 41:53
Marie Kondo. You Marie Kondo your friends. Is this bringing me joy?
Khema 42:01
When you hug the person, you ask ‘you do spark joy?’. This bugger.
Cheryl 42:08
I think almost subconsciously, we do have an intention when we hang out with whoever, right so even it could be someone that you don’t really like probably the reason that you hang out with the person is because you don’t feel lonely. And then that takes up your time. So it’s really about understanding what your intention is truly, and really reflecting whether the amount of time you spend with a particular friend or friend group, nourishing or fulfilling to you and is that really the best way you could spend your time. And also, I think a lot of times, this is going back to what Khema mentioned about giving and taking as well, which Kai Xin mentioned as well, is like, for me, I come across more self-centred. I’ll be thinking what can I get from this friend group, friend interaction. But then now I can also consider, ‘Do I have the capacity? And is there something that I could give to this friend group as well? Does someone need a listening ear or someone need someone to confide in?’. Little mind shifts.
Kai Xin 43:09
And how can you set the right conditions for that friend group who you don’t really like to be something that you really like? Because it’s all causes and conditions, the seed that we plant. So if you don’t like them, because they are always gossiping, then perhaps we can be the ones to move the conversation to something more wholesome. I think sometimes for me, I miss that part where actually I do have certain control over how I contribute to friendship. So it’s not always, you know, taking things as they come.
Khema 43:42
Yeah, I think that over time becomes an intuitive thing. Rather than seeing it as What can I get from this? Or what can I give to this person? It’s more like, do I feel good? Like, that’s it. How do I feel? So well, when I spend time around that, my friends are I just feel so bright. And so you just keep wanting to do that. Really moving with intention and intuition. Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a slight paradigm shift. Which feels less for us. It’s more natural. Yeah.
Nalanda 44:16
Maybe over time, as we grow older, like all of us, we’re in our 20s, right? Maybe as we grow older 30s 40s 50s And we look back, and eventually, one day, we’ll find that friend who just brings us so much joy and we can just be around them and just be and feel safe and able to talk about everything and anything and just have that one person. But at the moment I have like lots of friends and they all have their different level of capacity with different battery levels in different situations. Oh, everyone has trauma. Everyone’s still emotional. Everyone’s like, you know, all over the place. I think through a lot of time, wisdom, and age, age is like, you know, through experience We’re gonna be able to like find that amazing gym, amazing diamond of a friend.
Cheryl 45:05
If not like, if we don’t find at the very least we become that gem of a friend who can be a blessing to others as well. Yeah.
Kai Xin 45:11
Or we can be that own friend that we never had. I mean, our own friend.
Nalanda 45:16
Yeah. And yeah, just support yourself. Live alone. No friends.
Kai Xin 45:23
That sounds quite sad.
Nalanda 45:26
That’s how we’re going to end.
Khema 45:26
The conclusion is we don’t need friends.
Nalanda 45:35
Today, like someone asked him (Ajahn), Is it possible for lay people to experience enlightenment. He’s like, it’s very difficult. But with the power of good friends, very, very good friends, and the support of good friends, you are going to have more chances and a better chance to actually get there. And that was a nice way of ending the talk about friendship. And I thought about you guys.
Khema 45:58
Yeah, I think in terms of like being alone as well, I’ve had situations in my life where it’s like, no, there’s actually no inspiring friends that, not placing a judgement, but it’s like, there’s a lot of toxicity around me. So I have to just rather just be on my own. Because if I spend time with these people actually, like that quote, like it drags me down. So in those moments, I’d be alone. But then, to know one last point of what Ajahn said, also kind of like, acknowledged, oh, my god, I’m so deluded. I need, I need to hang out with the Ajahns, I need to hang out with Dhamma friends who practice way more than I do, because I need to borrow their power, their energy, because I don’t have that right now. And if you keep brightening your mind, and you just keep cultivating those qualities and strengthening your heart until one day, it’s okay, you can slowly be more independent in your practice.
Nalanda 46:54
Right, that other thing Ajahn said about friendship was that you can have a few friends and that’s it. Sometimes being a Buddhist, and you want to get like to the higher level of like a Buddhist practice, you can’t really be popular. You might just have a few friends. And that’s enough.
Cheryl 47:10
It is never about the quantity, but it’s always about the quality.
Khema 47:14
Exactly. You know Ajahn’s top five people are like all the Kruba Ajahns. How can you go wrong with that?
Cheryl 47:21
I know. Right? So just to wrap things up, do we have one advice, let’s say, anyone who’s having toxic friends or friendships that are not serving them, are there any tips on how they could cut it off?
Nalanda 47:42
People. Walk away, just walk away. Just communicate, give them a message, call them up and say, Hey, I’m not ready. I think that would be my approach. Unfortunately, I’m very straight. I’m like Aussie now. I’m a very straightforward person and just tell them like, Hey, don’t really want to hang out right now. Do what Kai Xin did. You did that right? You were like, just straight up skillfully told them what you needed to tell them, communicate the fact that you don’t want to be around them anymore and say, you know, you guys can still hang out but just without me. And I feel very safe to not doing that. Right now. I feel okay to not be with you guys. But later on, I might come back and reevaluate, reevaluate the friendship later on. I think that’s a great way.
Kai Xin 48:30
I actually only told one friend who is part of the group. I didn’t have the guts to tell (the whole group). I think it’s a bit intimidating.
Nalanda 48:37
But that friend was a representative of the whole group. So they’ll just go until the group.
Cheryl 48:41
Screenshot and send it.
Kai Xin 48:43
I’m not so sure what happened after that. It could be the case where maybe one person in the group just stopped saying that, hey, you know, maybe you should just reschedule to wait for Kai Xin to be available. And it’s like, Oh, it’s okay, let’s move on without her. It could be indirectly fading me off. Or it could be, hey, Kai Xin said this, she doesn’t want to hang out anymore, which I hope he didn’t do that.
Nalanda 49:08
Okay. Well, you were very brave still. You were very brave anyways to do that.
Kai Xin 49:13
I really think it depends on the circumstances. Because if it’s one on one, and you’re really close with that person beforehand, I think it’s okay to open and honest conversation and to be upfront about it and talk things through maybe you know, after a conversation, you realise that, hey, the dynamic of the friendship can be tweaked a little bit, and you would still appreciate hanging out with one another, maybe just not as frequent or maybe doing a different activity, who knows the friendship might change and evolve in shape and form. But then if it’s in a bigger group, I think it’s more tricky because you have to think about whether you will be sidelined, safety is also one (consideration) and there are a lot of implications and potential misunderstandings. So I think my approach would be to slowly just fade away. And like what Khema mentioned, right, you’re going to prioritise something else and be occupied with those things. So you don’t lie to say you’re not free, but you really are not free. And just somehow or another, they will distance away from you, and make it organic. Khema? What are your thoughts?
Khema 50:25
I feel like the way that you break up with your friend would depend on what the current connection is, like, you know, if they’re, you know, really adamant about asking you all the time, and it’s like, you just don’t feel comfortable, then obviously, direct communication is required.
Or sometimes you don’t even feel safe enough to tell them that you don’t feel safe and that you don’t want to continue having this conversation, in which case, I think silence, which we now call ghosting, or fading them out slowly, and just short replies, stuff like that. I think that’s okay. It’s important to protect your space so that you can grow. And, you know, I feel like, maybe there is some hesitation to let go of toxic friends, because the concept of being alone is, oh, no, I’m gonna be alone. Now, who am I going to hang out with if you’ve never had an alternative right?
But I think in those situations, really having to do inner like, what an inner reflection on what do I want to prioritise in my life, if I keep putting my time into these relationships that are not serving me, then I’m never gonna grow. So it’s like making sure you have your priorities straight. And then that allows you to intentionally seek out people who are more aligned with you and what you’re trying to aspire to. And that’s where your time goes on. And I think naturally, you build that up. And then suddenly, it’s like, you’re surrounded by all these devas, and it’s like, oh, my gosh, life is great. The Dhamma is real. Like, you’re just, yeah, I think that that can happen.
Nalanda 52:01
That was really good. I would probably just trust my gut instincts. If there’s a friend who’s really hurting me, physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, I think a nice clean cut is probably a great thing as well. Trust your gut instinct. Yeah. And for the listeners out there, there’s no Yes or No, there’s no black and white and there’s no right or wrong answer. Trust your gut instinct and just consider what’s best for you sometimes. Yeah, your safety is very important as well. Don’t be like that girl, you know, the Indonesian case where like, they’re really great friends. And then she poisoned her best friend at the mall. Oh, yeah, she was like a jealous friend. This is a very, very big case, you guys. So call the police if you have a toxic friend like that.
Cheryl 52:48
Just wanted to add that perhaps if you’re in a friend group that you don’t really like all you can do is try to get to know the people individually and I think people behave very differently when they are in one-to-one setting versus when they’re in a group because there are so many different factors right like the power dynamics that just makes the whole thing semester a little bit more superficial. So yeah, trying to get to know the person on a deeper level and perhaps you could find out unexpected friendship there. And always understand your capacity like you can patiently endure to a certain extent but it’s really taking a toll on your mental health. Just being in the presence of this person gives you a headache, then you know, that’s a good signal and indicator that you should withdraw from them physically. So love yourself and do what’s right. So I think that we can end today’s episode. I think that’s a lot of content today. And if you’re listening all the way to the end here, make sure to check out the u awake? podcast.
Nalanda 53:53
Thank you, Cheryl. Thank you Kai Xin for inviting us. We had a great time. Great chat. And you guys up podcast friends as well. You are in the circle now. You can sit with me, you can sit with me. Thank you, guys.
Thank you to our sponsors of this episode:
Alvin Chan, Tan Jia Yee, Siau Yan Chen, Tan Key Seng, Ven You Guang, Soh Hwee hoon, Wilson Tan.
TLDR: Single and in your late twenties? Mabel shares her stories of realisation and wisdom from navigating the dating world. From opening the door to your heart to understanding the drawbacks of mundane love, this article explores deeper into struggles of dating in the environment which pushes us to find romantic love.
Being single in your late twenties seems to scream that you are broken and bad. It feels like a problem that needs to be fixed.
A life devoid of romantic love is often painted to be imperfect and empty. And although I’ve been happily single and mostly unperturbed by narratives like these, my immunity has been waning the older I get. I feel pressure, shame, and anxiety. Dating used to be fun and exciting, but now it feels like a chore.
Dating leaves us feeling vulnerable, afraid and imperfect.
It is such a courageous thing we do – showing up for complete strangers, opening up to them, and letting them into our lives. No matter how many times I’ve done it, it still scares me. I’m so thankful to have met with nice people and formed genuine connections. Looking back, I’ve made mistakes and probably caused some hurt, but it is also through experiences like these that I learn about myself.
Here are a few things I’ve learned as a twentysomething navigating the dating scene:
Tip 1: Opening the door to your heart
During the dating process, I noticed a lot of self-sabotaging tendencies that emanate from feeling not good enough.
I felt the need to have achieved certain things or look a certain way before I am worthy of romantic love.
I would meet nice guys who show interest, and think to myself: ‘oh, he can’t be interested in me, he’s too good for me’. I would be fearful that they would see my flaws and lose interest.
Using dating apps magnified this feeling of inadequacy. I felt like a two-dimensional, searchable item looking to fit into someone’s dating checklist.
I had to take on society’s demands and live up to its expectations to feel worthy of love.
These feelings of imperfection and deficiency stemming from a strong sense of self could lead to love prone to impurities and more suffering. We could end up being in relationships that don’t serve us, or find a partner for the wrong reasons.
Only when we extend loving-kindness to ourselves can we examine love with a neutral mind, and know when to keep trying or when to end things.
I read renowned Australian monk Ajahn Brahm’s Opening The Door To Your Heart 10 years ago, and I’ve always thought the key message was being kind to others. The story, I realised, was about opening the doors of our hearts to ourselves as well.
You do not have to be perfect, without fault, to give yourself love. If you wait for perfection, it never arrives. We must open the door of our hearts to ourselves, whatever we have done.
Tip 2: Understanding the drawbacks of mundane love
I extended this unreasonable yardstick for worthiness to my partners. After ending things with a few guys, I unwillingly acknowledged that perhaps I’m part of the problem.
The Buddha points out that we suffer due to cravings that arise when we don’t understand ourselves. I unpacked my approach towards dating and saw how easily put off I am by signs of flaws and recognised the ideals and desires I projected onto others.
These are desires not rooted in reality, and I was creating suffering for myself.
Dating apps with their filtering functions and abundance of choice give us the illusion that there is a perfect human being out there. I loved the idea that I would find someone with instant and perfect compatibility.
But the truth is there are no relationships with no conflicts, and we will always have to work through inevitable differences.
Conditioned things are impermanent and unsatisfactory. We and our partners, as unenlightened beings, will always have our own sets of defilements which will render the dating process unsatisfactory at times.
Almost all of us reach dating age with some form of wound or trauma. Perhaps the more space we can allow for the deficiencies of love and the flawed reality of nature, the better chance we’ll have at being good at love.
Suffering ends when ignorance-based cravings end, not when you find ‘true love’.
Tip 3: Knowing what you want and communicating it
When I started using dating apps, I knew I was looking for a committed relationship with someone who shares similar values. So I would swipe left on guys who were looking for something casual, or guys who ‘don’t know yet’ simply because our goals were not aligned.
I believe this saved me a lot of time and heartache. During the dating process, I have found it helpful to communicate these goals and needs.
Don’t assume that they will figure it out on their own, or that they should know these things instinctively.
It is worth investigating what we are looking for in a relationship. Are we hoping to end suffering with love? Are we looking for an antidote to boredom? Are we hoping to gain coarse rewards through this relationship such as sexual pleasure, wealth, social status, or fame? Is this kind of relationship sustainable?
I reflect on these questions quite a bit.
It is when both partners are ethical, of good character, and equal in standard of conduct that they can live together enjoying all the pleasures they desire. (Numbered Discourses 4.53 Living Together). Perhaps we could use this as a guide when dating.
Dating is a skill and something we can learn to be better at through experience. By practising more qualities of metta (the superior kind of love), we can strive to be one who neither suffers from this dating process nor be the cause of others’ suffering.
Wise Steps:
Be respectful and kind, and treat the other person the way you would like to be treated.
If you’re feeling burnt out from dating, take a break, don’t go through the process mindlessly. Enjoy the beauty of being single.
Reflect on what you’ve learned from previous relationships or dates. Did it teach you something about what you want and don’t want? What are the ideals, desires and expectations that you tend to project onto others?
Dear members of the LGBTQ+ community in Singapore, allies, and friends,
We rejoice over the repeal of Section 377A of the Penal Code. This is significant progress made towards the vision of creating an inclusive Singapore.
The Buddha taught us to be kind towards all beings and was a strong proponent of non-discrimination. After all, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexuality, abilities, etc, we share the same desire to be happy and to be free from suffering.
May we continue to focus on what we have in common despite our differences.
May we continue to cultivate the skillful qualities of compassion and be kind towards ourselves and those around us.
May we work on ourselves to be better humans.
Through these, we are hopeful that the world can be a place that is harmonious, free from animosity, and that we can all live with ease.
As your friend on this path of peace, we’d like to extend our loving-kindness to you and your loved ones.
TW: This article contains content about LGBTQ+ discrimination and conversion therapy.
The recent incident of a school counsellor at Hwa Chong Institution presenting anti-LGBTQ+ content and a video from a group promoting conversion therapy during a sexuality education lesson has led to some students sharing details of the session online.
Is it wrong to feel outraged about this?
To all those who feel affected by the incident, be it LGBTQ+ youths or allies present at the assembly or others reading about it online, I know that it may be deeply upsetting to witness this episode, alongside any hateful comments that come along with it.
As with all other beings in this world, we all suffer, because of our greed, aversion and delusions.
Judgments may arise in our minds about the counsellor and the school and with that, ill-will and anger can cloud our minds.
We may feel that justice should be served and punishment should be meted out. However, if we give in to the temptations of anger, we are nudging the mind to develop an inclination to anger in future, sowing the seeds of future occurrences. More importantly, such thoughts can hurt us further and impede us from directing our attention to caring for our friends who are impacted by this.
“This cruel thought has arisen in me. It leads to hurting myself, hurting others, and hurting both. It blocks wisdom, it’s on the side of anguish, and it doesn’t lead to extinguishment…
Whatever a monastic frequently thinks about and considers becomes their mind’s inclination.” – MN 19 Dvedhāvitakka Sutta
There is nothing wrong with the arising of anger. It is a completely natural reaction to have in the face of injustice. The key is how we act when we notice the anger. We can choose to raise our fists and bay for blood or we can choose to underscore our response based on compassion, wisdom and kindness.
What else can we do then?
To those who are concerned about how their friends may be impacted by this incident, do check in with your friends and be there for them. For people who are struggling to come to terms with their sexuality, the misinformation may reinforce unhealthy perceptions they may be having about themselves or others in the LGBTQ+ community.
While we cannot walk this journey for them, we can walk with them and support them.
Share with them open letters responding to this incident in support of the LGBTQ+ community (here, here and here)
Direct them to trusted friends/family members or community resources listed below, if needed
To the LGBTQ+ individuals who are affected by this incident, please remember that there is nothing wrong with being LGBTQ+ and that you deserve love and happiness as much as anyone else. If you are finding it challenging to cope, please reach out to a trusted friend/family member or the resources listed below.
Closing Thoughts
Personally, what I gained from this episode is that we have no control over what happens in the external world, such as the things people say or do. But, we can decide what we want to do in our inner worlds, such as our practice and our choices. We can choose to send loving-kindness to not just the LGBTQ+ youth affected, but also to the counsellor involved.
He is also clouded by delusions, just like we all are, and he too wants to be happy and avoid suffering. By deepening our practice, it gives us a chance to tend our minds to compassion, kindness and wisdom and helps us to be better able to support one another through whatever life throws in our way.
Resources
Professional services available to LGBTQ+ community:
