This Handful of Leaves episode features Julianβs deeply personal journey of self-discovery, vulnerability, and healing. He shares his struggles with self-worth, identity, and societal expectations, reflecting on how Buddhism, self-acceptance, and gym culture helped him overcome past trauma. Through his experiences, Julian emphasises the importance of kindness β to oneself and others β and the courage to be authentic despite life’s challenges.
About the Speaker
Julian is a personal trainer and massage therapist who recently embraced a path of spirituality in his pursuit of a more authentic life. After returning from Canada following a career setback, he took the opportunity to reflect deeply on his journey and redefine his purpose. Now, he is dedicated to helping others who may feel lost, guiding them toward balance in both body and mind. As a father to a teenage daughter and a passionate advocate for fitness and mental well-being, Julian believes in the power of movement, mindfulness, and self-discovery to transform lives.
Key Takeaways
Self-Acceptance and Compassion
Acknowledge and embrace imperfections as part of personal growth, instead of striving for unattainable perfection.
Vulnerability as Strength
Opening up about struggles can lead to deeper connections and support from loved ones, making emotional burdens easier to carry.
Cultivate Kindness
Practicing empathy and considering both personal well-being and the well-being of others creates a more compassionate and fulfilling life.
Transcript
Full Transcript
[00:00:05] Julian: Until I was 18 years old, I could not look in the mirror at all. I’d go to the barber and I’d do this. I refused to look in the mirror. I could not. And the barbers would have to smack me, pull my head out forcefully because I just refused to do it.
[00:01:35] Cheryl: Tell me more about your journey as a Buddhist.
[00:01:37] Julian: Okay. I grew up Christian. Only in NS, when I met a very very good friend of mine and he’s now a Lama. He came to find me over the years and I think one day, he said to me, you’re supposed to be a Buddhist you were born to be a Buddhist and again.
[00:02:00] Julian: I remember at the time I was like no, it’s not something that I can accept, you know. But I think over the years, I was really quite dissatisfied with what Christians were telling me about myself. There’s always something wrong with me.
[00:02:13] Julian: After learning a bit more about Buddhism, that really is what life is about, is learning. So a lot of these that I go through now, or in the past to get over it, I’ve always told myself instead of being angry at it and reacting to it, you respond and that gives me pause.
[00:02:33] Julian: It’s very difficult, but I try, right? And this stems from something Lama said when I was in NS. He said, gay people are the way they are, because at some point in your past life, you were homophobic and you were very mean and very unkind to people who were gay.
[00:02:55] Julian: And therefore, this is the lesson you must learn. Of course, at the time, I didn’t accept it. But now, even if you look at it from a very contemporary, scientific perspective, even if it’s not true, even if you don’t believe in past lives, it doesn’t detract us from being kinder to people who are suffering because of whatever they’re going through.
[00:03:20] Julian: And my generation, the Gen Xs, we grew up in this environment where you must have a steady job, must have a car, must have so much to be successful. And this comes back to this Buddhist thing of ego, and this vulnerability, also comes from ego. I was a very proud person.
[00:03:40] Cheryl: So what changed?
[00:03:41] Julian: Losing it all. In all my life, I’ve always wanted to make a difference. And at some point I realised what difference am I making in all of this with my job and my career.
[00:03:51] Cheryl: What does it mean for you to just be yourself? From what I understand, (you) have not been yourself.
[00:03:57] Julian: The sense of liberation and the rewards I’ve received from being as natural as I can, I don’t live with like a knife at my throat anymore, a knife at your throat. When I was living in the double, I was hiding my family.
[00:04:15] Julian: I did it out of fear. Fear is a very, very powerful emotion. I was afraid for them. I was afraid for me. I was afraid of what people think about me. I was afraid of what people would think about them. And I was afraid of people blackmailing me, which happened quite a bit as well.You know, “if you don’t have sex with me, I’m going to tell your family”.
[00:04:31] Cheryl: That must be so difficult.
[00:04:33] Julian: It was part of the journey. And I can’t say that that journey was anyone else’s fault because that also came from my decisions in the past, correct or incorrect. And so I stuck with it and so coming out again to them and saying all of this was also very difficult for me because I was like, am I ready to lose it all?
[00:05:00] Julian: But it also comes to a point where really what to do. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. No matter what we do, people will judge you. There’s nothing that anyone’s going to agree with you 100%. It’s impossible, right? If I’m going to show skin, people are going to complain. If I don’t show skin, people are also going to complain.
[00:05:21] Julian: People just want to be heard. It was difficult to know that you’re going to lose everything. But one of the things I’ve also realised is that after all these years, I will always find a way to figure it out. Looking back, I’ve always sort of belittled myself. I said, no, you’re not good enough.
[00:05:40] Julian: You’re not good enough, which is very, very unhealthy. At some point I realised I needed to stop doing that. I needed to have a lot more self love, you know? Why can’t you do well in school? You’re horrible at it. Everything fails, you know? But that is the generation we grew up in.
[00:05:58] Cheryl: So what, how do you change that? Right. How do you bring the external inspirer motivator to come alive within?
[00:06:06] Julian: Okay. If you see my Instagram, it’s a lot of skin. I have to say, fortunately or unfortunately, I started with that. Growing up, I was always called short and ugly and until I was 18 years old, I could not look in the mirror at all.
[00:06:25] Julian: I’d go to the barber and I’d do this. I refused to look in the mirror. I could not. And the barbers would have to smack me, pull my head out forcefully because I just refused to do it. So I grew up like that, feeling very, very dirty about myself.
[00:06:46] Julian: And so now going to gym has been my therapy, it is my safe space. And it’s something that I tell myself I cannot, and I will not compromise.
[00:06:57] Cheryl: It’s fascinating how you started with revenge and now it’s become your safe space.
[00:07:02] Julian: So this confidence thing started from there when somebody looks at my Instagram page, yea the guy wants attention, I don’t deny it. Because that was how I could find love and attention for me. That changed. By being able to see myself, I realised I have to stop saying
[00:07:21] Julian: Okay, this is what happened. When I look at myself in the mirror, I see pictures, “this part still need to work”, “this part still need to work”, “your legs are so small”. Like, “what are you doing Julian?” “What’s wrong with you?” “Buck up”. And that’s what pushed me over the years. This constant saying, “not good enough”. Despite thousands of people telling me, “you look good”. Never believe this.
[00:07:53] Julian: And at some point, I thought to myself, I really have to say, stop. What is good? Everything can be better. Everything we do can be better. That’s how we self improve. But we have to stop saying, it’s all not good. I’ve done nothing so far. That was my lesson.
[00:08:17] Cheryl: You play many characters in your life. You take on so many jobs. At night, when you go to sleep who is this Julian that’s left?
[00:08:24] Julian: Who’s the real me? It’s that scared little boy who’s terrified of everything, terrified of making decisions, terrified of taking control. I used to write and call it, the monster I chained up inside.
[00:08:35] Julian: A part of me finds that being this vulnerable now, might make them suffer. I’ve been able to recently tell my daughter and my wife. that I’m in a bad place and I’m depressed. And feeling like I don’t want to live anymore. In a male dominated society as a father, it’s very difficult.
[00:09:00] Julian: But I’ve been rewarded with my family telling me you’re going to be okay. I am glad that this is also a reward of the vulnerability that I’ve been able to show recently, my crying on videos. I stopped holding back and I’ve learned that when I stopped holding back from myself, I also stopped holding back from them.
[00:09:24] Julian: If my deepest and darkest secrets are out to them, no one else matters anymore.They can accept me for everything that I am. They support me regardless of everything that I am. It’s still a journey.
[00:09:38] Cheryl: It’s still a journey, still a battle, but you show up every day trying your best. What is the most essential message that you want to share with our listeners who are young working adults between the age of 18 to up to 40s.
[00:09:56] Julian: Be kind to yourself. Don’t be arrogant about it, but allow yourself to be imperfect and accept it. We are all imperfect beings. We are all on this plane of existence to better ourselves. It’s very easy to be kind to other people, you know, some people will flip it around. It’s very easy to be kind to yourself. No, it’s very easy to be selfish about yourself. What’s the difference?
[00:10:22] Julian: Selfish is ego. “I want money. I must feel better before you. I want to earn more money. So therefore I don’t give you this lead so that you don’t close the sale because I want the sale.” That’s ego.
[00:10:36] Julian: Where’s the kindness to yourself? Kindness to yourself is saying things like “I have empathy for the guy. He needs the money and I want to help him, but I am in no position to help him without that money. Then what’s going to happen? I’m doing him no good. Let me earn this money with him. Let’s grow together.” That’s kindness for myself and him.
[00:11:01] Julian: βIt’s very easy to be selfish in ourselves. It’s very easy. I want money. I want good food. What are the motivations? It’s me. The ones who say I want to make a million dollars. I want to make a billion dollars because I want to give 80 percent away. There’s a difference. So be kind to yourself, understand that you’re not perfect. And of course, be kind to other people. I think that’s the root of kindness.
[00:11:28] Cheryl: Thank you so much, Julian. Maybe just want to add one point which is, I think it’s extremely encouraging and inspiring to me to see that you have so many battles to fight on this difficult journey, but yet you try your best, right? Not being perfect all the time, of course, but you do try your best to make people a little bit less like how you felt with that scared little boy inside. I don’t know if Jia Yi has any last words or questions.
[00:11:56] Jia Yi: When you, you decided to be vulnerable and it was a huge gamble for you to lose it, was it like a push or pull factor or something snapped that made you decide, okay, I’m going to do this?
[00:12:08] Julian: It was more of a sense of overwhelming frustration. It’s almost like what I call the aspie melt. I’m done. I’ve had enough. Enough. You know, I just want to throw out the trash. I wasn’t quite able to see what would happen.
[00:12:28] Julian: I just had to trust myself that I would have the ability and the universe will have the ability to keep me safe. So, you know, even as I thought, lose the house, lose the family, lose my friends, parents and all, just lose it. There was a part of me that I lose it all and I can’t handle it or can’t tank it, kill myself.
[00:12:54] Jia Yi: So it was like your last straw already?
[00:12:56] Julian: It was, yeah. I do have to add, the thing that has always kept me from the act itself, is the Buddhist teaching. And it was something my Lama told me many years ago, that if we do commit suicide, we will be doomed. Doomed to live your last moments over and over and over again. Until your supposed time and then you pay penance for it.
[00:13:19] Julian: And I remember thinking, “so terrible”. I just want to go. This just makes it worse. You know? So, it has kept me literally from going over the edge. Look down and be like, “Do I want to keep doing this? No.”
[00:13:44] Jia Yi: Thank you for sharing.
[00:13:46] Cheryl: Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much Julian.
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Editor and transcriber of this episode:
Hong Jia Yi, Ang You Shan, Tan Si Jing, Bernice Bay, Cheryl Cheah
In this podcast episode, Jeraldine, a top tech sales leader and content creator, shares her journey of navigating unfair criticism and how she has learned to manage it constructively. She discusses a particularly painful experience when she was unfairly compared to another woman in an online forum based on appearance, leading her to question her self-worth. Over time, Jeraldine has developed strategies to manage criticism, maintain self-esteem, and practice forgiveness. She emphasises the importance of emotional regulation, loving-kindness, and cultivating healthy relationships in response to negative feedback. Jeraldine also shares insights on how to balance personal growth with standing up for oneself.
About the Speaker
Jeraldine Phneah is a Singaporean tech sales professional and content creator, passionate about helping others become the best versions of themselves in their careers, finances, health, and relationships. Through her own journey, she shares practical, actionable solutions to alleviate the pressures of modern life. Listed as one of LinkedInβs Top Voices in Singapore, Jeraldine has been featured in prominent media outlets such as Channel News Asia, Dollars & Sense, and Her World. She has also spoken at high-profile events, including the YWLC/Grab Future Women Leaders Forum 2022, E27 Echelon Asia Summit 2023, and the Endowus Wealthtech Conference 2023. In her professional role, Jeraldine works at an AI SaaS startup, where she focuses on scaling their business across the APAC region.
Key Takeaways
Criticism Can Be a Tool for Growth:
Jeraldine reflects on how to use criticism as a means of personal growth rather than letting it undermine your self-esteem. Instead of reacting impulsively, she suggests acknowledging your emotions, reflecting on the core message of the feedback, and deciding whether it holds value for self-improvement. Healthy self-esteem is essential for navigating criticism without losing your sense of self.
The Power of Loving-Kindness and Forgiveness:
One of Jeraldine’s learning point is the practice of extending loving-kindness even toward those who criticise or hurt us. She shares the importance of forgiveness, not as a sign of weakness, but as a way to release personal suffering and foster emotional well-being. By detaching from emotions and empathising with others, she is able to better maintain peace in the face of unfairness.
Building Resilience Through Relationships:
Jeraldine underscores the role of supportive relationships in building resilience against criticism. Close friends and family help provide a grounding perspective, buffer against negative feedback, and offer constructive advice. This network helps maintain a balanced view of yourself, preventing you from internalizing harmful opinions from others.
Transcript
Full Transcript
[00:00:00] I was putting all this effort to research, to write, to create, like, good content and then people will just focus on like, is she pretty or not.
[00:00:10] There are two types of people, those who let criticism crush them and those who use it as fuel. Today, you’ll learn how to become the second type. Imagine waking up to find strangers on the internet debating on whether you’re attractive enough to deserve success. This happened to my guest last year.
[00:00:29] She’s a top tech sales leader and content creator who thought she was prepared for everything, until a single forum post changed everything. But this isn’t just another story about internet hate. In this video, you’ll learn how to reframe your critics, stop emotional spirals, and find valuable lessons in forgiveness.
[00:00:49] This conversation changed how I view criticism forever. I think it might do the same for you. Hello, welcome to the Handful of Leaves podcast. My name is Cheryl, the host of the podcast. If you look around us, we are in a very beautiful studio and this is called the Thought Partners Studio. So I’ll share a little bit more about this studio.
[00:01:09] This is all about fostering creativity and wellness in a workspace designed for growth. From yoga sessions to art exhibitions, Thought Partners offers a space where innovation thrives. So you can come here to book a studio, use it for whatever needs that you want. Yeah, and check out their website.
[00:01:27] And today I have Jeraldine who will be our guest. My name is Jeraldine. I create content around growth and specifically on topics such as wealth, health, and relationships. Can you share with us a fun fact about yourself? I guess what many people do not know about me is that my day job is actually in the software as a service sector where I do sales.
[00:01:48] I interned at a Hong Kong news outlet and worked in Hong Kong for a while as well. I wanted a job that gave me a certain level of autonomy and freedom while being able to fulfil the wealth part of it. So today we are talking about unfairness. Yeah. I think I would love to understand what is unfairness to you and specifically to what extent you would consider something is unfair.
[00:02:13] I guess, wow, this is the first time I’ve been asked this question about what unfairness is. A common definition would be more like you did something with the expectation of something in return but then that was not what was given to you. Okay, would you be able to share a specific moment where you felt people were unfair to you in terms of their criticism?
[00:02:34] You know, the most memorable one is actually a forum post. They put me and another woman side by side to compare, like, who is prettier. Wow. And I think at that point in time, I felt really unhappy because I was putting all this effort to research, to write, to create like good content and then people will just focus on like, “Is she pretty or not?”.
[00:02:53] Of course, I am not unrealistic to think that like, appearance doesn’t play a part in anything in life. In fact, I feel that, you know, personal grooming is really, but for it to have such a massive weightage at that point in time, was something that I was unhappy with. Yeah, and that set me on a road to, a insecure kind of like path, right?
[00:03:12] Because I will constantly be afraid of and self conscious about how I look like. I changed the way I dress and I even adjusted my voice to be able to speak in a tonality that is much lower versus like what it originally sounded like. So all these changes that I adjusted to make was hopefully to be more presentable to the public and I did my best for it.
[00:03:34] And even so, I still got criticisms in the end and that made me realize that like, hey, there’s no way to please everyone. Oh, yeah. There’s no way to please every single person. We still get a lot of our validation, our self esteem from what other people say. How do you manage the balance between pleasing others and finding the inner strength?
[00:03:53] I guess it begins first with the mindset, right? Of viewing yourself not as something that is a fixed individual, a fixed identity, someone that is growing and evolving, you know? So when you receive criticism, the first instinct is to disregard it entirely, like, and to react emotionally.
[00:04:12] Yes. But what I would like to do is, of course, first acknowledge that, hey, there is unhappy feelings when I receive criticisms like this. Because nobody likes to receive criticism, right? We love the praise. We hate the blame. Yes, correct. But this is an inevitable part of life. Recognising my emotions is the first step.
[00:04:32] And then secondly, look at the message, try to distill it down beyond the emotional writing to what is the core message really about. Then reflect on it and determine like, hey, to what extent, you know, is this really true? Like for instance, when I receive bad comments that I was fat-shaming other people, I really had a long think about it.
[00:04:55] And I read through my content in detail to try to understand, like, was there any part that I could have written better? So that, that reflection is a very important step. So this balancing, like the message you receive, right, and thinking about how you can be a better person. But at the same time, there’s also a fundamental layer of self esteem that I believe that everyone should strive to have, especially if you are a creator, because without that, you would end up not having boundaries and just like cave into whatever people want. What does a healthy self esteem mean to you? A healthy self esteem in this particular context means that you are able to hear criticisms, right?
[00:05:34] Acknowledge them, reflect upon it. You know, and determine or not whether this is something that is good for you or not, and then act on it accordingly. How to go about doing that, that’s something that only you can give yourself. First of all, acknowledging your own strengths. And I guess for me personally, that’s something that I’m still working on, right?
[00:05:55] Acknowledging my own strengths, building up that whole “What am I good at? What makes me a good person”, for example. And then, of course, the second part of it is to cultivate healthy relationships that can continually give you that feedback. So that would help you recognise that, hey, there’s a reality of the world that I live in with my close friends and family that is different from what is outside.
[00:06:15] And they can also provide that grounding factor as well that reminds you of who you are without all of this branding image. Yes, correct. Relationship is a, I would say it’s a buffer because they amplify your happiness during good times, right? Like I feel happy when my friends attend my panels, you know, and help me to do filming and all that.
[00:06:36] And that really elevates the happiness of being on stage. At the same time, they are also a strong buffer against criticism. Let’s say for example, the criticism is like, they hit you with 100 points for example. But because you have the support of your friends and family, you can actually drastically reduce them because you have people to talk to who can nurture you, who can give you that kind of like love, protection and also feedback as well.
[00:07:01] Yes. And I want to dive a little bit deeper into that. Especially I think on the first point that you shared on, you know, just managing your emotions, when you first receive all of these things. What are the steps that you take to try to regulate your emotions? I remind myself every time I react on emotions, right?
[00:07:21] It’s always a very bad idea. Like I will regret the things that I say. So I remind myself to take a break first. At the same time, it’s also important to detach from the feeling of emotion. So you recognise that, hey, there is grief. There is like unhappiness. There is stress. There’s frustration. But you don’t like take that as part of you.
[00:07:42] Recognise that it’s a passing emotion. Because as with every feeling, they will come and then they will go, just like the waves. And just to add on to that, you know, the Buddha teaches the four foundations of mindfulness, and one of the first foundation is actually the mindfulness of the body.
[00:07:56] So whenever we feel, for example, frustration building up, we can pay attention to the sensations, like where is it in your chest? How are you? How’s your face feeling? The temperature rising and that helps us to become, like you mentioned, a little bit distant or detached, rather than being completely caught up in the emotions.
[00:08:16] Yeah. And I think another very cool tip: the Buddha also shares that, you know, whenever people are being unkind to us, what we can do is to maintain a mind of loving kindness. So what that means is that we still wish for ourselves to be well, to be at ease, and then wishing the person to still be kind and happy as well.
[00:08:37] Yeah, and there’s a monk that also shared that actually the people that give us feedback, they are giving us the best gift. When you take the time to evaluate how can I improve, what is relevant. Then that is really a gift for yourself to become a better person. I think what we generally love is that, cause like, you know, we’re not deities, right?
[00:09:00] We love praise. We hate blame. So sometimes we may unconsciously surround ourselves with people who tell us what we want to hear. Yes. And then we will never grow. Yeah. So when we have someone who’s courageous enough to come and tell you, “you suck!”. Then we’ll be like, “thank you. Why?” Just a couple of weeks ago, I had like a feedback session with my boss about what’s working, what’s not working andβ¦ Sounds stressful.
[00:09:25] And I think the feedback he gave me about how I can communicate better was definitely something that was very valuable. I started to apply. Yeah. Because after he told me about the things I need to improve, I came up with like an action plan, right? But there are things that I can do to make steps in that right direction.
[00:09:42] And after applying those tips for a few weeks or so, I did see some positive feedback from other people. Your second point about having a loving kindness towards someone who is giving you that feedback is also very valid because if it comes from a good place, that person is actually taking the courage to risk even like your relationship, right?
[00:10:03] To share with you something that is really important and that shows you how much they care. And if it comes from a bad place, like they’re just like an angry person online trying to hurt you and all that, you have to also extend the kindness towards them because it is notβ¦ if someone is not hurting, they won’t hurt others.
[00:10:21] So similarly, if someone who is angry, unpleasant, the people around them may not like them very much. They also have to endure their own harsh inner critic that will always be popping up at themselves as well. So hence, we can develop that loving kindness by expanding our perspective to see that they are actually hurting by being mean and unkind.
[00:10:43] So yeah, yeah. And while we maintain loving kindness towards people, I’m also curious about your thoughts on this. How do you know when to let things go and balance that with standing up for yourself? I guess the first thing is really to look at the validity of the criticism itself. Like to what extent is this true?
[00:11:06] So for example, in my recent feedback with my boss, I felt that a lot of the things that he did share were true and accurate, which prompted me to quickly take action to resolve them. And the second thing that I care about is does this criticism come from a person that is worthy to give it.
[00:11:23] So the Buddha said that, you know, when we want to share criticism with others, the first thing that we want to do is to check ourselves. Do we have the faults that we want to criticise the person for? Then the second thing is about the timeliness. So when do we tell the person? Whether they are very emotional, very upset, or you tell them at a point where, you know, they have calmed down a little bit and they become more receptive as well.
[00:11:46] Then the third piece is, of course, is it based on truthfulness, whether you’re saying based on facts or your perception. Because facts and perception can be wildly different, especially when we’re coloured by whatever biases that we have towards the person. The tone that we share to the person, because when you mention intention, right, sometimes intention we really cannot tell.
[00:12:10] But one way that we can also know is through the way, the gentleness, which they convey the message, right? Are they using a kind tone, a gentle tone, or are they like, you know, a kind of point finger tone? So, that’s one way. And then the final way is whether it’s beneficial or not. Right. So it aligns very much with what you say, like you check yourself, you do your own self awareness and say, Hmm, will it really help me to improve?
[00:12:35] That’s why I think there’s a lot of wisdom which aligns with the Buddha’s teaching that you shared and that’s amazing. So we’ll move on to one final part of about maybe the idea of forgiveness. Have you experienced difficulty in forgiving people who are unfair to you? Many times. Okay. Yeah.
[00:12:56] And I guess it’s just human, right? I’m sure that, you know, if anyone watching this is like, Oh, I have no problem with this at all. They are not being the mostβ¦ don’t lie. So, yeah, I do experience that. And it’s sometimes like when you, you know, people are treating you unfairly, you know, or being unkind to you there is a tendency to hold the unhappiness and grudge.
[00:13:18] A while back, something happened in my work whereby there was another colleague from the sales team, another sales team who actually took a deal that was meant to be mine and she actually won the deal very quickly because it was an inbound request. The final outcome was that, you know, after I found out and petitioned for it to be written to me was that she would get 30 percent and I’ll get 70 percent and that caused me a lot of frustration for a period of time.
[00:13:44] So I was very unhappy for a period of time also, and I met my close friend from school for lunch. And you see something really wise, right? You know, she has already taken 30 percent of the deal. Why do you let her take away your happiness as well? It’s powerful. Yeah. And that made me realise that like, by bearing grudges too much, I’m actually suffering.
[00:14:08] Yeah. So rather than holding on to that unhappiness, why don’t I just let it go and move forward? The second thing to think about when it comes to this type of like incidents is really to check yourself as well, because I’m not perfect also, yeah, and, you know, definitely there will be times in my career where I let other people down and all that.
[00:14:31] So if I, am not 100 percent flawless then who am I to actually judge the other person? And I guess the final part is actually really to extend compassion towards them also, because sometimes when you see someone behaving in a way that is not the best, often it is because it comes from a place of fear, anxiety, and probably she was going through a lot of stresses at that point in time as well.
[00:14:56] So looking at these things holistically has helped me to really let go. It’s not always easy and I still struggle a bit but I try to follow these principles. And I’ll just share a perspective from a psychologist actually. So this psychologist, she developed this model called the REACH model to help people to foster forgiveness because I think forgiveness is truly a practice, a commitment, and a ritual that we need to do because it’s so easy to step back to like, “That woman, yeah, stole my deal.” Yeah, right.
[00:15:26] So the first, first part of REACH is called R, recall the hurt. Meaning to really be honest with how much their actions, their speech, their behaviour have affected you. Right. That also means you avoid seeing yourself as a victim or the other person as a villain, allowing yourself to just experience that emotion through the body sensations and emotions.
[00:15:50] Then second is E, empathise, which is what you say, you know, kind of empathising the person and seeing what they’re going through. And a lot of times people who hurt us may not, may not ask for forgiveness. So this part is crucial also where we imagine The person explaining the actions asking for forgiveness and trying to connect with you.
[00:16:12] Then A is altruistic gift. So this is referring to imagining your forgiveness as a gift to yourself, right? You know, you don’t allow yourself to be hurt again by the person and also imagine that as a gift to the person. So I give you my forgiveness and that really can bring a sense of relief and prevent further disappointment on your end.
[00:16:36] And C, commitment is really writing down your commitments or telling people close to you that “I commit to forgive this person.” And we hold on to that, which is the last H, hold on to forgiveness. So every time we’re angry, we hold on and choose forgiveness. And I think it could also tie back to our beliefs of we should live in a fair world.
[00:17:00] And when that is crossed, I think that brings up a lot of unhappiness as well. Sometimes people feel that by not forgiving someone else, they are protecting themselves. Ah, so the holding on to the anger is a form of protecting themselves. Yes. An armor. Yes. Oh, interesting. Because in the situation whereby they were to forgive, that person might hurt them again.
[00:17:22] So they want to put up this type of barriers. So then how can we protect ourselves to not be hurt while forgiving the other person? So let’s say someone does something wrong to you and it’s important to let go and forgive because it’s necessary for your own emotional and mental well being. At the same time, you don’t actually have to be best friends with that person, right?
[00:17:44] It’s not an expectation that you are best friends with everyone. You can continue to, of course, work with them, coexist. And of course, along the way, if information arises that you’ve actually not seen many good parts about them, then it’s okay to, you know, not deepen that relationship with them. I think it’s really, the essence here is really about the idea of forgive, not forget.
[00:18:05] And forgiveness is something that is within, is regardless of what other people do to you. But not forgetting is in relation to how you maintain skilful relationships with them. So what that means is that if you know this person has a bad habit of constantly lying, manipulating, you are kind to them, you treat them nicely, but you don’t share with them very confidential information.
[00:18:27] Yeah, like basically the stuff they say, you just discount 50%. You know, yeah. Since we’re being mindful about that, but it’s not like you hit them, you want them to suffer. You will be the one that’s suffering. And maybe we can end the episode: what final piece of advice do you have for our listeners here about thriving despite life’s unfairness? I guess something that has really helped me is to, first of all, begin with the type of person that you want to be. So if you aspire to be someone who is compassionate towards others, then what does it really mean in action that you can do in your day to day life?
[00:19:06] And if you think about it, while forgiveness is difficult for every single person. Yes. And dealing with criticisms is difficult for everyone as well. It starts with a place of like, hey, I identify as, you know, and I aspire to be someone who is compassionate. And therefore, a compassionate person would extend this loving kindness towards other people, right?
[00:19:28] In terms of the people who have wronged you as well. And also the people who are saying things that are unfair to you. So having that goal in mind and that kind of aspiration of who you want to be can sometimes make it a lot more motivating. It’s always easy for anyone to be kind to people who are kind to us.
[00:19:45] Of course. But it’s not easy to do it for the other group. So therefore, I think if I’m able to do that, I sometimes feel a sense of pride in myself because I realised that it’s something that is not easy. And the fact that I can do it shows that I have a certain level of maturity, hopefully.
[00:20:02] And that reminds me of Michelle Obama, she says “when they go low, we go high”. I think what I find very inspiring is that the courage that you have to keep going despite everything that people throw at you and as well as constantly connecting with your intention to impact and help people as a content creator.
[00:20:21] So yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your time with Handful of Leaves. And if you want to find more of her work, more of her inspirational stories, you can find her atβ¦ you can follow me on LinkedIn or Instagram at Jeraldine Phneah. She’ll leave the details in the description and of course my mailing list as well.
[00:20:42] So you can also like and subscribe and share with a friend on YouTube, Spotify, we are everywhere. Okay, so till the next episode then, stay happy and wise. Bye bye. Bye.
TL;DR: A heartfelt letter addresses the universal experience of loneliness, especially in social settings. This offers comfort through Buddhist teachings and modern research, emphasizing the importance of self-connection, mindfulness, and the distinction between loneliness and solitude. The letter concludes with three wise steps to cultivate inner peace and meaningful relationships.
Dear 18-year-old Self,
I see you. I see the weight of expectations pressing down on your shoulders, and the relentless need to have everything figured out.
This pressure, this constant striving to meet your own and others’ expectations, has led you to a place of aimlessness and doubt. You feel lost when your goals remain unmet, and in these moments, loneliness wraps around you like a cold, unforgiving cloak.
Utterly Alone
I vividly remember that night in your university dorm room. The sounds of laughter and chatter filtered through the thin walls as your classmates gathered in the common area. You sat on your bed, laptop open but forgotten, staring at the door. You were surrounded by people and even friends, and yet you felt utterly alone.
You considered joining them. After all, wasn’t that what college was supposed to be about? Making friends, having fun, creating memories. But the thought of stepping into that room filled you with dread.
You knew you’d paste on a smile, laugh at the right moments, and make the appropriate small talk. But beneath it all, you’d still feel that gnawing emptiness, that disconnect.
It wasn’t that your classmates were unkind or unwelcoming. They were good people, and on the surface, you got along well. But something was missing. The conversations never seemed to go beyond the superficial β classes, campus gossip, weekend plans.
Something Deeper
You yearned for deeper connections, for conversations that would challenge your thoughts and stimulate your mind. You craved authenticity in a world that seemed content with the shallow and fleeting. You wanted to be understood.
At that moment, the loneliness felt almost palpable. You could reach out and touch it, a barrier between you and the world outside your door.
You wondered if something was wrong with you. Why couldn’t you just be satisfied with what everyone else seemed to enjoy?Β
Why did you always feel like you were on the outside looking in, even when you were right in the middle of things?
This experience, my dear self, is a poignant reminder that loneliness isn’t about physical isolation. It’s about emotional and intellectual connection. You can be in a room full of people and still feel profoundly alone if those connections are missing.
You arenβt alone in feeling lonely
But here’s what I want you to remember: this feeling, as isolating as it is, is more common than you think. Many others in that very room probably felt the same way, hiding behind their own masks of casual cheerfulness.
The Buddhist teaching of dukkha reminds us that dissatisfaction and a sense of discontent are universal human experiences. As you navigate these feelings, consider also the words of the late Zen monk, Thich Nhat Hanh: “Loneliness is the ill-being of our time. We are lonely together.”
In the Samyutta Nikaya (SN 56.11), the Buddha teaches about suffering as a noble truth. He explains that being separated from what is pleasing and being united with what is unpleasing are forms of suffering.
Your experience in that dorm room – being physically close to others but emotionally distant – is a modern manifestation of this ancient wisdom.
Loneliness & solitude
The funny thing that Iβve learnt over the years is that loneliness and solitude are not the same. Itβs not how many people you try to fill your hours with, or the achievements, or social status that matters. Loneliness is a state of feeling disconnected.
Solitude, however, is a chosen state of being alone, where you can find empowerment and contentment in your own company. This distinction is critical, as psychologist Netta Weinstein’s research highlights.Β
This experience of loneliness, painful as it was, was also an invitation. An invitation to look inward, to understand yourself better, and to seek out the kinds of connections that truly nourish yourself.
Her studies show that solitude can be a source of empowerment and positivity, whereas feelings of disconnection and sadness mark loneliness, and according to the US Surgeon Generalβs Report, it increases the risk of premature death by 50%, akin to the dangers of smoking (Rest in peace, Uncle Cheong. 12 cigs a day didnβt make you live till 90.)
It was a catalyst for growth, pushing you to explore what friendship and connection really mean to you, and more importantly, learning to find βhome – a place within where you feel warm, comfortable, safe, fulfilled.βΒ
Going Home
This concept of “going home” is central to addressing loneliness.Β Thich Nhat Hanh teaches that βgoing homeβ means returning to the island of self through mindful breathing, sitting and walking.Β
Within a few seconds, you connect with yourself. You know what is going on: what is going on in your body, what is going on in your feelings and your emotions, what is going on in your perceptions, and so on. He further explains, “By sitting down, you stop that state of being: losing yourself, not being yourself.
Everyday you rush through life, going from one class to another, without really knowing whatβs happening. Physically, you are there, but you do not know that you are there. You are alive, but itβs almost as though you do not know you are alive. And that is happening almost all day long.
And when you sit down, you connect to yourself.” Every time we sit down on a cushion, we do so to connect with ourselves. Sitting down is an act of revolution, it is the way to heal ourselves and the collective loneliness of our society.
Your journey through loneliness is not just a personal struggle; it’s part of the greater human experience. By facing it with courage and compassion, you’re not only working towards your own healing but contributing to a more connected and compassionate world.
May you be free from suffering. May you find peace. May you know that even in your loneliest moments, you are part of something greater β there is a future ahead of you, where you will walk in solitude on a beautiful Sunday evening, taking in the sights and sounds of a lovely garden, feeling fully content, joyous and peaceful. I promise you these dark days will be over.
I shall leave you with this final reflection: How can you connect with another person when you cannot connect with yourself?
With deep love,
Your Wiser Self (10 years later)
3 Wise Steps for anyone struggling with loneliness:
1. Practice Daily Mindfulness: Set aside time each day for mindful breathing or walking. This will help you connect with yourself and find peace within.
2. Embrace ‘solitude crafting’βintentionally planning fulfilling alone time. Use alone time for self-discovery and personal growth. Engage in activities that nurture your mind and body. Cultivate Authentic Connections: Seek out relationships that allow for deeper, more meaningful interactions. Quality matters more than quantity.
3. Seek Professional Help: If loneliness persists and impacts your well-being, consider seeking guidance from a therapist or counsellor. They can provide support and strategies to navigate through these challenging feelings.
TLDR: Meditation always seems so hard to get acquainted with, there is always this inner voice that says, I canβt do it or I donβt do it good enough. However, once you recognize what is making it so difficult, your βenemiesβ can become your friend too.
Howβs your meditation retreat? If the answer is βso soβ or βnot so good,β congratulations you fit into 99% of what most meditation practitioners experienced. Oftentimes, just having this idea about how our meditation practice should be going is already setting us up for βfailureβ.
There is an innate judgement or comparison about how our mind ought to be during meditation instead of simply observing it as it is.
We have this expectation on the kind of progress we ought to have, comparing our meditation today with the one we had before, a βbetterβ peaceful meditation.
My teacher, Venerable Phra Ajahn Den, taught me one has to learn and see the moment as it is. The main goal is to be fully aware of whatβs happening now in this very present moment. Seeing things simply the way they are has nothing to do with good or bad. Meditate as if there is no outcome or result waiting somewhere in space and time. Itβs about learning how we can become more unbiased and resilient to the present moment.
So, whatβs getting in the way of being in this present moment?
The Pali Canon speaks of five hindrances, which I rename as 5 frenemies [you have to make friends with your enemies to win the battle right? :)].
They are called (paΓ±ca nΔ«varaαΉΔni in Pali) or obstructions during meditation, namely: sense desire (kΔmacchanda), Aversion (byΔpΔda), sloth and torpor (thΔ«na-midda), restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca), and doubt (vivikicchΔ). We have all had moments β perhaps one more than the other β when these emotions arise in our meditation practice.
Sense Desire
Sense desire includes wishing our legs to be less numb; wishing for our weather to be warmer, cooler, or quieter; wishing we are less sleepy. Sounds familiar?
I was given a choice in the temple on how I like to practice my meditation, so naturally, I chose to practice my walking meditation outdoors. Itβs not because it is better than indoors. Outdoor meditation provides more challenges: feeling the sweat dripping on your body on a hot day, houseflies buzzing around, and the potential of getting bitten by mosquitoes.
For those who have not done walking meditation before, my practice does not allow me to make any movement other than walking back and forth across a fixed distance. In doing so, I am training the mind to focus solely on the body’s movements and not engage in feelings arising from external disturbances. While walking, Iβm taught to be aware and recognize arising sensations.
With that restraint, the sense of desire grows stronger. I wish there will be more breeze. I wish the houseflies could leave me alone and many more.
Embarrassing to share, but before I came to the retreat, I was watching a Netflix series 1899. The show was so intriguing that I would think about watching the next episodes during the retreat and wondering what would happen!
Nonetheless, it shouldnβt be a smooth sailing journey. Without all these sense desires that arise, how do I recognise or understand them better?
The desires seem to get a hold of me, so alluring and yet so unsatisfying at the same time. It is like being trapped in a prison cell you put yourself in, where you have no control.
How do I observe that these desires are so impermanent and are always trapping me in a prison cell?
Aversion
Aversions include being annoyed by someone who is not considerate by making loud noises during the retreat. Or even deeper than that: resentment and anger from emerging memories surface into our practice. We can spend countless hours imagining how we are going to defend ourselves the next time we see that so-and-so. Like a performer rehearsing, we rationalise how we will react and this thought process reinforces our narrative of being the aggrieved party.
We can dig the bottomless hole.
As I have chosen to keep noble silence in the retreat, my friend, who attended the retreat and knew I was keeping my mouth closed, tried her very best to talk to me after being told that I was not speaking. When her solicitation for a verbal response failed, she messaged me on the phone.
She was not even asking any questions about the meditation practice. Rather, she was seeking advice for a poster design that someone was doing for her event (Iβm a professional designer).
Half of the time, I was lamenting about this person during the retreat. I realised how silly I was. She didn’t even know I was annoyed by her. So, immediately realising the aversion was not helpful for my practice, I confronted the annoyance.
I stopped lamenting and was aware that my friend is also a human being just like me – someone who needs love and compassion. I sent her my loving kindness and hoped that she could be awakened by her insight in this retreat.
Isnβt letting go of hatred a way to extend compassion and loving-kindness to ourselves in such moments too?
Sloth and Torpor
Sloth and torpor refer to a lack of alertness. It can be mental states of dullness, boredom, sleepiness, or indulging in pleasure, not realizing you are taking the comfort for granted by not stepping out of your comfort zone.
These states are often due to physical causes such as sleep deprivation, exhaustion, or monotonous auto-pilot mode filled with mundane actions.
I woke up at 4am every morning to start my meditation. It does feel sleepy yet I can appreciate the routine β so I can do in the retreat what I normally wouldn’t do in my daily life.
I pushed my body and mind into unusual conditions to see how my mind reacts and responded with the βabnormalityβ. I will never know how far I can reach without stepping out of my comfort zone.
Restlessness & Remorse
Restlessness is that feeling of wanting to get the practice over with and asking in my mind, βIs it time to end my meditation?β
As a designer, Iβm so used to thinking about the next step and moving on to the next project. I seldom stop and appreciate the moment of what I had designed or done at that moment.
In this retreat, I let go of the control over my βmeticulousβ plan.
I went with the flow with Phra Ajahnβs reassurance when he spoke to my friends, who are beginners doing a meditation retreat.
He said, βEvery time, I see the faces of my disciples with serious and stressed faces. It shouldnβt be like this. You should be more relaxed and enjoy the process. That you finally had this opportunity to see who you truly are without any distractions.β
Whenever I felt restless, I stopped beating myself up for my incompetence to stay awake, I observe it as it is when it happens. I tried not to control how I should feel but rather to look in and befriend restlessness as a feeling. Once I’m aware of it, I don’t feel restless anymore.
Remorse is a sore spot in memory, where you wish that you could redo something β your mind keeps returning to it, endlessly replaying βwoulda,β βshoulda,β and βcouldaβ.
Where do I even begin?
I can count my blessings. I can also count how much guilt I have borne.
The guilt of not seeing my father when he passed is always there. However, whenever that guilt arises, I will dedicate whatever merits I have gained to him so I can lessen my guilt.
Confront your mistakes. Learn how to untie the knots: by seeing you can’t change anything and have closure like knowing what you can do now to make it better. Follow your breath and let it all out.
Doubt
Doubt could be doubt about the Dharma, the path, your teacher, or your practice.
βIs this the right practice for me?β βShould I take my meal now?β βShould I take more food since Iβm not taking food after noon? βShould I be trying something else?β βDoes my practice get me anywhere?β
You may be doing mindfulness of the breath and wondering whether you should be counting your breaths, doing mental noting, chanting, or engaging in the choiceless debate instead.
Now, calling these mental factors βhindrancesβ is a fundamental misconstruction. They can also be our friends if we get a chance to know them better. Itβs better to think of mental states as useful tools for a particular purpose.
Instead of wishing the hindrances away, perhaps we can explore them with interest and simply observe them as they are. Can we notice how each sensation or thought behaves without our participation? When we are aware and apply effort to observe, the hindrances become our very practice itself rather than obstacles in the way of practice.
They could be our friends, enemies or frenemies however you want to see them (sometimes their roles can switch too). Whatever it is, hindrances are necessary for our mental cultivation.
If we were so perfect in our mindset if the meditation retreat was so smooth sailing, why do we even need to do a meditation retreat in the first place?
Summary
After all, our minds, like everything else, are interdependent and affected by causes and conditions. Our goals when we practice meditation are to develop three skillful abilities:
1) staying with the object of meditation (Concentration);
2) recognizing when weβve drifted off (Awareness);
3) returning to the object without fuss or judgment (Equanimity).
When we have a βgood meditation,β i.e, when our concentration is strong and weβre able to stay with our object of meditation, we are developing the first skill. Even when we keep drifting off and returning to our concentration 100 times during meditation, weβre still developing the second and third skills.
These may be the most important skills we need to have in improving our daily lives: recognizing when weβre no longer present and returning to mindfulness. It is what we do after the meditation retreat that is more important than the actual retreat itself. Not everything you encounter has to be good or bad, It’s relativity, what’s good for you can be bad, and what’s bad for you can be good too. We should treat everything we face as frenemies. Isn’t that what non-duality is all about? ; )
βYou are your teacher. Looking for teachers canβt solve your doubts. Investigate yourself to find the truth – inside, not outside. Knowing yourself is most important.β
Keep watching your mind just as it is. Turning poison into wisdom is the path of the Buddhas. Turning enemies into friends would make your meditation journey a little less bumpy.
Wise Steps:
Do you always feel that meditation is ‘tough’? Or that your meditation is going nowhere? Identifying these 5 frenemies might be helpful
Knowing which of these 5 hindrances affect you the most and how to deal with them will be key to growing in your practice.
Hello, my name is Cheryl, and welcome to the Handful Of Leaves Podcast. Today, we will be talking about crisis, mental distress and suicidal tendencies. This is a very heavy topic and definitely, it’s not the easiest to listen to. Yet, it is the conversation that we all need to hear more of. Globally, nearly 800,000 people die by suicide in the world each year. That is about one death every 40 seconds. Bringing us closer to Singapore, just last year, suicide is the leading cause of death for those between 10 to 29 years old. The numbers are staggering, and you never know who may be suicidal. It could be the person in the room with the biggest smile, or your strongest parent or perhaps even yourself.
Cheryl 00:56
We hope that by talking about suicide by talking about mental distress, this episode will bring you hope if you’re feeling suicidal. And if you know someone who is suicidal. This could perhaps help to shed light on what they’re going through and how you can be of support to them. As a trigger warning, today’s content will consist of suicide and self-harm, as well as depression if at any point you need to tune out, please pause the podcast.
Cheryl 01:25
We will begin with a grounding exercise to centre our hearts and mind as we delve into a dark topic today. Wherever you are listening to this podcast, I invite you to take a deep breath with me. Breathing in deep into your belly and breathing out. You relax. Breathing in the feel a sense of calm. Breathing out, you’ll relax. Breathing in joy and breathing out few at ease, grounded and centre.
Cheryl 02:16
Today’s speaker will be anonymous and we will be altering their voice so as to mask their identity. Here’s a quick introduction about them. The guest has been working in the mental health space for close to five years, helping people with crisis mental distress and suicidal tendencies to find clarity and meaning in their lives. This episode is not meant to be professional advice. If you’re feeling any distress if you’re feeling depressive episodes, please seek out professional help. We will attach some resources at the end of the podcast as well.
Cheryl 02:59
Hello, Kai Xin, hello guest. In conjunction with World Mental Health Month, we will be talking about helping ourselves and others to mental distress and suicidal tendencies. While I was reading through the statistics, I realised having suicidal tendencies or thoughts is so much more common than we think. And I’m really curious to hear your personal experiences, have any of you had suicidal thoughts before?
Guest 03:26
At one point in time, I did have some suicidal views. And it was due to my recollecting about meaning in life, and it led me to philosophical arguments internally and externally with people around me. The conclusion was that there is no meaning. Naturally, suicidal tendencies arose in me. So, in short, yes. I had those fears back then.
Kai Xin 03:51
I have not, but I know of friends who have confided in me who have.
Cheryl 03:55
I find it very interesting when people say they never had suicidal thoughts. I have had suicidal thoughts before. I think it has been from very serious to just fleeting thoughts, like I’m eating a burger and like, maybe death is good, to the more serious ones where I think it’s in conjunction with depressive feelings, where I just stand by the side of the road and waiting for a bus and I just wish that I would just lurch forward and a car would hit me and I just really wish I would die right then. So yes, I have had suicidal thoughts and it ranges in severity, ranges in intensity, depending on my mood as well. And when I talk to many friends, it seems that it is something that everyone kind of thinks about it on and off. And so I thought it was interesting that Kai Xin shared that she never experienced suicidal thoughts.
Guest 04:43
But Cheryl, it must be quite unsettling to have that thought and perhaps even surprising to have the idea of wanting to jump straight into the traffic. You must be going through quite a rough time back then for these thoughts to have arisen.
Cheryl 05:01
Yeah, and I think I cannot like really pinpoint any particular reason. It is just a cloud of like sadness and a cloud of pain. And I do remember, one time when I was driving as well, I was just feeling like, “Okay, I just want to just press the pedal and just go as fast as possible and just knock whatever, or just give up all control in driving, and just let whatever outcome happens.” So it is that sort of feeling that I’ve experienced before. But the interesting thing is that I cannot particularly pinpoint it to one specific pain. It’s just a whole cloud sitting on my head.
Kai Xin 05:39
I’m curious, when was the first time you had such a thought? And where do you think you got those from because, for our guest, it is from a philosophical kind of debate and understanding. And for you?
Cheryl 05:53
I think it’s interesting because the first time I had a suicidal thought, I cannot remember but I remember the first time I felt like giving up. And that was when I was in secondary school when I was bullied. And I just kind of was isolated from everyone, and I just wished to give up. But it didn’t really come across as a suicidal thought. But somehow, I think that’s similar to the theme and concept of just wanting to give up and escape, somehow manifested into a proper suicidal thought of like, really wanting to die. And perhaps it could be the influence of like learning a little bit more about, oh, people can suicide through x x x means and knowing of news of like, oh, people who have actually successfully killed themselves, yeah. And then I think you just kind of form into an idea of “this is a way to escape.”
Kai Xin 06:45
So it’s one thing to get away from the pain, I do see a common thread in the conversations I have with my friends as well, that seems to be one of the options that they are talking about. And I know our guest here, you have been helping people to overcome some of these very difficult emotions. I’m personally quite curious as to your journey, how did you get involved? And also some of the challenges faced, and perhaps also some advice so that we can all know, walk away from this discussion with some tools to help ourselves to deal with difficult emotions as well as to be the right support for our friends who are dealing with such emotions.
Guest 07:27
First, I’d like to acknowledge what you said earlier, in response to what Cheryl mentioned, you mentioned that Cheryl felt suicidal, more in a sense of not wanting the pain to continue. And in fact, that’s the sense of what I get to when I meet or talk to some of those that are suicidal.Β It is not exactly that they want to die, it’s that they want the pain to end and that they feel stuck. And there are no other alternatives apart from suicide. So that seems to be a common mental framework. For some who may feel suicidal.
Onto your question regarding the reason why I joined this organisation to do what I’m doing right now, which is working with those who are in mental distress, helping them through their suicidal thoughts. At one point in time, my friend, good friend went through a very rough breakup. And he was feeling very suicidal literally, every other day, he would call me and tell me that his heart feels so much pain that he would rather die. And at one point in time, there was one night about 1am that I had one of those calls, and suddenly he hung up his phone. So in a state of panic, I took a cab to his place. And in that cab ride, I called the suicide hotline here in Singapore. And what did they respond? It was actually an automated response.Β I’m on hold for about 15 minutes, maybe 10 minutes. I don’t remember. But it was quite a while. And that’s when the thought arose, and me that oh dear, there are other people who are in crisis, and there’s not enough supply of help of resources.
So that’s when I set the intention to want to help people in this space and mental health, be it suicide, or mental distress in whatever shape or form. And many years later I’ve had the chance to join the field. And so I did.
Cheryl 09:49
You have been working in the field for about five years. I’m sure you’ve experienced many people’s stories and many pressures. experiences with the people that you interact with. Can you share with me, you know, what is the most memorable one from your experience?
Guest 10:08
One of the most memorable ones that I had was of this young man, boy, teenager, 16-year-old. And he has been contemplating suicide for a long time. So one of the sessions when we spoke, he sounded very certain, he was adamant that this is, I’m going to go. So we spoke further, to the extent that we talked as if it was his last conversation since he was so clear.
And that was when he opened up to all of his past life stories. In that final conversation, or the simulated final conversation. He explains that he ultimately missed his dad who has passed away. Dad is, Dad was the only person who can understand him. And now he’s the only guy in the family. So he is taking on the brunt of bringing home the bread, even though he’s still 16 years old, and the mom doesn’t really care for him. This is utter neglect and loneliness. And he felt bad, and juxtaposing that with his thoughts of suicide, he realised that to truly honour his dad who has passed, he should live on and live the values that his dad has taught him. And that was something that I thought, left an imprint in me that I couldn’t really forget. Yeah, the only way to live is to carry on his Dad’s values.
Kai Xin 11:47
Wow, that’s really powerful. And it almost gives a new purpose in life, right? Because I can’t say for sure, but from my understanding, especially friends who have depressive and suicidal thoughts, what I sense sometimes is that they feel like a burden to the world. And maybe it’s better for them not to exist. So besides escaping from their own pain, it’s actually out of very good intentions, almost at the expense of their own welfare. That maybe it’s okay for me to, leave this hole and other people’s life would go on. And I think what you just share is so powerful, because it gives a new purpose and reason to live, and then to also be helpful and valuable to society. So from the mindset of “I’m such a burden” how can I add value to other people’s lives? I think it’s a strong push forward. I’m actually very curious to hear how you conversate with these people, because number one, you mentioned the long waiting time, right? I’ve watched documentaries as well as especially during the COVID period, the waiting time is so long.
Kai Xin 13:03
Β I actually did a search online, how I can be part of a volunteer on the receiving end of the Helpline\ but in the end, I didn’t, because I think the barrier to entry is just so high, you have to go through many months of training in order to be able to then handle phone calls. But I feel if I can walk away today with some tips just to be a better friend, or even like a better listener, I don’t know I might save lives. And I hope listeners as well would be able to watch out for some vital signs within themselves or within others to kind of, you know, put a stop to any of these very, I would say undesirable consequences.
Kai Xin 13:44
Going back to the question, how do you usually navigate conversations when people have suicidal thoughts?
13:51
That’s a good question. Because more often than not, we wouldn’t know that they even have suicidal thoughts. So the irony is that the question that we are so afraid to ask is one that we might need to ask. The question is, are you feeling suicidal? And beyond that, or in the midst of the conversation, of course, we know that we don’t have the full picture from the party consent, and therefore we don’t have that position to give advice, where we come in is merely to listen to understand empathise and that’s how we hold the space for them to be able to articulate their own thoughts. And in doing so, helps them by seeing their own thoughts with greater clarity, and thereafter with continuous understanding, empathy, and holding that space. We also ask questions for them to further clarify that. More often than not, they find the conversation helpful to see more of themselves, maybe some parts are hidden, some parts clear, combining both to find a new meeting, new direction.
Kai Xin 15:10
That’s very interesting. So it’s not really trying to fix any issue. But just being there for them, offering them the space for clarity. And perhaps through that reflection, they can emerge with a better option in order to relieve their stress, relieve their suffering. Yeah, that’s powerful. I think sometimes just simple things like presence makes such a big difference. I am wondering for you, Cheryl, when you have those suicidal thoughts, are there instances where you wish somebody could have done something?
Cheryl 15:44
Wow, that’s a tricky question. I think it’s very hard for me, and I think many others that I hear as well, when they experience suicidal tendencies. I think because of the shame that people have associated with this kind of thought. The tendency is to isolate yourself. So you know, you close yourself in a dark room, you close yourself under a blanket, or whatever it is. And, it’s to just hide with it. And when you do that, the tendency just become louder, the tendency occupies the entire space. And the last thing I want would actually is to reach out to people. So I do admire the courage or perhaps is not even courage, perhaps even desperation right, for some people to seek help, because they may be very fearful of actually doing the deed. But usually, I will just simmer in there. And what helps is actually the reflection of Dhamma in the sense that even if I were to end the body, the form, the mental states are negative, the kind of attachments, the delusions are still there abundant in my mind, I will have to restart the game in a new body, this time with a lot more bad karma, and a lot more obstacles to what is already a very challenging path. So, fortunately, or unfortunately, (because sometimes I really just wanted to end,), the Dhamma kinda forces me to keep afloat and keep going. But I will say it is a lonely and very alone kind of process because it is something that is not social, it is not something that you openly share with others.
Kai Xin 17:27
And I think there’s so much need to destigmatise, the word ‘suicide’, and also destigmatise just negative emotions. It’s such a human thing to feel pain, in fact, is the first noble truth, right? Understanding suffering. And yeah, I admire your courage for even sharing your own personal journey and do know that you have friends like us, who are here for you. I’m also just wondering, how would it be if friends were to reach out to you when you’re isolating?
Cheryl 17:58
I will secretly feel very happy, but I would feel surprised most of all. Surprised that people would suspect. It’s something that you right, Kaixin, sometimes when you’re in a not good mood, because you’ve always been the person that support others, so people usually wouldn’t think of you needing help. So is that similar kind of surprised that, “Oh, you actually would think that I need some help? Or you would actually associate me with something so unpredictable? Right? Yeah. So that is why I would feel surprised. And then, unfortunately, it will be scepticism, it will be how long would this person be here for? How long would this person care? In five minutes, in a week the person will get bored and busy. So I don’t know if it’s a stigma or if it’s something that perhaps our guests could share more? Do you notice trends like that, where people always feel very alone, very sceptical and doubtful of everyone else? And putting up a high barrier to anyone who even tries to reach out?
Guest 19:04
That is definitely a relevant question because the more we feel suicidal, the more we may, like Kai Xin earlier mentioned about feeling like a burden to society and therefore, want to isolate ourselves. The CDC, which is the US organisation that classifies suicide under disease, quote, unquote, actually indicated that one of the causes of suicide, the factor that promotes suicide is the stigma itself. When having the stigma, we choose not to speak about it. And therefore we don’t engage in help-seeking behaviour. We don’t even talk about it.
Guest 19:48
Everything is just bottled up and there come your thoughts that cycle through themselves with no additional inputs. That’s one element of isolation. The other you mentioned thereafter, when someone approaches you, you feel a little bit of scepticism. Yeah. How long will they even be here for me? So this is something that I’m not really sure how to answer. Because the level of scepticism may differ from person to person. But what’s generally the trend is that those people who have suicidal tendencies, if they have those tendencies, due to a dull view of the world, the level of scepticism tend to be relatively high. So I would say it may compound the effect. And the feeling of being let down when someone was initially there offering help, and thereafter goes away, the person is engaged in other things. The feeling of loneliness comes back, which is why it’s quite a difficult problem to tackle. Because even good intentions may lead us to hell. As that phrase goes.
Kai Xin 21:06
It does sound really tricky. I think there are two ways to look at this right. One is, of course, we have a support system, but some support system, they might not have the capacity to support us 100%. Then the other aspect, it’s about supporting ourselves. So if I have suicidal thoughts, what are some ways that I can deal with this thoughts? And I’m wondering whether you have any, I wouldn’t say advice, but just like thoughts on this.
Cheryl 21:35
Before that, I thought it may be interesting also for our guests to share. What are some of the reasons that people could go down the path of suicidal tendencies or even suicide? And then of course, back to Kai Xin’s question on, how can we then, you know, help ourselves in this way.
Guest 21:55
So there are many reasons why people go into suicide ideation. Maybe we simplistically would classify into two factors.
One is when there is a crisis happening, maybe you get fired from your job, you come home to find your spouse leaving you, your parents have cancer, all things piling up, your plate is full, and you feel stressed. The level of certainty in your being is destroyed. And in times of crisis like that, when the emotions run high, suicidal thoughts may come. And if the stress is too unbearable, one may take the action. That’s one element.
The other side of things is more of a continuous thought building up, it could be due to many reasons that we may not have the time to cover here. But could be due to like your philosophical views, your dim view of the world could be due to constant loneliness could be due to childhood trauma, or mental illness, especially. So these broadly two categories, due to intense situations are coming in together, or more of a prolonged, almost chronic aspect of suicidal ideation.
And on Kai Xin’s question, if we found ourselves to have those thoughts, how do we in a sense manage themselves out of them? Or manage through them? The fact that we can catch those thoughts initially would, I think, be a trigger for us to find solution, and not to mull over them. I think this conversation helps in that our listeners would be able to then put, like an additional antenna to realise that hey, oh, no, now, I haven’t suicidal thought. That is interesting. Bring forth curiosity, where the thought comes from, and thereafter investigate the causes for those thoughts. Is it due to certain life events, certain stress that we can’t manage? Or has it been there for a long time? That’s the first thing catching it is one.
Secondly, of course, seeking professional help, is always the ideal thing to do. You could go to a counsellor to talk things through and thereafter, you may get a prescription, or rather sorry, you may be referred to a psychologist for prescriptions if needed. So the diagnosis will then help you to take a step further down.
On the other hand, talking about preventive aspects, before even having those thoughts, our normal practice as Buddhists is to reflect on them. Five unavoidable events, right. The five remembrances on Ageing, illness, death on our Kamma. It helps us to view the world in perspective where we expect crisis to happen, we expect those events to happen to us. And when the suicide ideation arise, we can look at it objectively to know that this could be due to other conditions that we have no control of, but we expect them to come. So maybe in brief, those are things that we could keep a note of.
Cheryl 25:20
Could you share on the five remembrances, I think you mentioned four points.
Guest 25:26
So the five membrane says, We are subject to ageing, illness and death, and we have not gone beyond them. The fourth one is that we will go different been separate from the things that are out there, and the things that we love. And the last one is that we are the owner of our actions. And whatever we do, we will inherit the consequences.
Cheryl 25:50
Thank you so much for sharing, and also for really inviting us to investigate with curiosity, our thoughts, I have a question here. Because from my own personal experience, I feel like when I do have these thoughts, or even any sort of emotion, it feels very overwhelming. And the last thing that I want to do is to go into them to investigate, because it’s already so overwhelming to just experience them. So any advice on perhaps how to regulate myself?
Guest 26:26
Definitely, that can be a challenge when emotions run high. So perhaps the tendency to want to use the five remembrances or to reflect on the Dhamma as for those that are more cerebral, but when we know ourselves, our own human selves, our own tendencies.
If we know that the emotions run high, acknowledge the emotion, let them arise, feel through it, it is part of the journey of self discovery, though, we also have to keep in mind that like this Zen saying to use pain as the mirror, meaning when there is pain, there is suffering. So when we see the intense emotions, we acknowledge that it is there, while at the same time realise that when emotions run high, it’s not fair to us to make any decisions or take any actions at that point in time. So simply sitting with it, for failure to subside, might help. And of course, if that is still a bit challenging for some, talking to someone about it might also allow you to step outside of your emotions, or to feel emotions with someone else. And therefore you can feel a bit safe discussing, talking about what you’re feeling, and to have that second point of view, or sounding board.
Kai Xin 27:44
From my experience, speaking to friends, what they have found helpful is also to recollect the goodness. So I think when your mind is very dark, and Tao, all you could think about, it’s all the negative stuff. So having a list like a go to lists of what are some virtues you have, or photographs of things that can jolt some happy memories, just to brighten the mind a little bit. I think that is also something that is really powerful.
I want to just add on to the point that our guest have earlier about the five remembrance because for people listening to it for the first time, it can sound really depressing, like, you know, I’m, I’m still subjected to death, then why don’t I just end my life right now. But from a Buddhism perspective, because we don’t believe in nihilism means this is not your only life. If you end this life, you would then need to continue. It’s like a series, right? We watch drama. And then there’s a new season new episode, and you never know, whether you will take a form of a human and animal or even a being in a hell realm or heavenly realm, it all depends on the causes and conditions, which is the karma, you know, we are owners of our karma. And I think that becomes really sobering, because it is about going beyond death. It is about not just understanding pain, but seeing how exactly can we go beyond pain. And that’s exactly the roadmap that the Buddha has given to us. And if we really want to be free from suffering, then we have to understand the second noble truth, which is there is a cause of suffering, the clinging, the attachment. And then the third one is there is a way out. And then the fourth one is the way out, which is the Noble Eightfold Path. And that’s the only sustainable way in order to Yeah, to be free from any kind of distress.
Kai Xin 29:42
So personally, I find that to be really sobering. And I also know of friends who, like you Cheryl or when you just think of like, okay, if I were to end this life, I don’t know when my next starting point would be, and there’s a lot of negative, you know, karma and energy as well. That itself is really a very powerful thought to stop them on their feet. So I think I just wanted to make that clarification for people who do not know the five frequent recollections of truth. Yes.
Guest 30:12
Thanks for clarifying that Kai Xin. Definitely the view of Buddhism may seem nihilistic or depressive, when we look at the first noble truth, there is suffering or life is suffering. But when we go further, Truth Number Three is there is a cure to suffering. So it is not the be all end all, there is a way out. And that is when the nihilistic view ceases, and we go on into a more hopeful view in Buddhism.
Cheryl 30:47
I want to share a quote that I heard or I read, which says that whenever there is suffering, there is the opportunity to be free from suffering.
Kai Xin 31:00
I think it’s really how we make use of our circumstances. I’m not trying to oversimplify it. But the real truth, it’s really about perception of our own circumstances and how we make of it. Of course, then the next step is how can we expand our capacity to then perceive, you know, things in a beneficial and skillful way?
Guest 31:25
Well, what you mentioned there Kai Xin about how we perceive things, and that reminds us of the Sallatha sutta, , which talks about the two arrows, where it’s that everyone, regardless of whether you’re a practitioner, or a non-practitioner, you will feel pain, and that is the first arrow that comes. But the non-practitioner or those that are uninstructed, according to the Sutta, will lament, will mull it over, will beat themselves over it. And that creates a second arrow that puncture through the person, wherever the well instructed disciple would not do that. They will see the drawbacks, that arising the passing away of those emotions, and prevent the second arrow from getting them.
Kai Xin 32:11
I think there’s a quote that says, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. Something like that.
Cheryl 32:19
Is a Facebook quote or something? Yeah, I think I think that’s a very beautiful thing to realise, at any present moment where you’re suffering, are you holding on to two arrows? And are you like squeezing it a little bit harder to yourself? Or are you actually putting in the effort to try to pull the second one and then the first one. So in a way, not easy, not easy at all. But it’s helpful to know that, in all of these things, we do have the capacity to realise that we have the option, as difficult as it may be, to still free ourselves from anything that is unnecessary and additional.
Kai Xin 33:01
And I’m also wondering, in the process of trying to pull out the arrow, it’s probably going to hurt even more, isn’t it? So then, okay, number one, is that true? Like from experiences? And then number two, how can we develop that tolerance and patience to really just end your intensity of emotion as we are going through the healing journey? Because sometimes, I believe when we are hitting the tipping point, but if we just wait a little longer, it’s either we break through or we break down, then? Yeah, how can we be able to see that?
Guest 33:38
That’s a very tough question when I don’t have an answer.
Kai Xin 33:43
For reflection, because even though I have not encountered suicidal thoughts, but I wouldn’t say for sure that in the future I might not have I think it really depends on how I guard my mind now. And even when dealing with very difficult and intense emotion, I have the tendency to want to push it away. And the more intense it gets, the more averse I feel. So I suppose the question is also for myself, right? Because I don’t have an answer. Like, how can I just sit with the pain even though it’s friggin painful. It’s tough. Yeah.
Guest 34:16
So like what we spoke about earlier, when emotions run high, logic is low. So it’s always important to preempt ourselves that we should never make any intention, decision, action when emotions are running high. And this is more of a general point also, especially when we’re with our partners or at work when we argue, emotions, run high. Keep that in mind to not react. That’s of course easier said than done. But as practitioners, the element of mindfulness is something that we continue to cultivate, easy or not, and that is the true test of being a practitioner, I’d say. Emotions getting the better of us.
Cheryl 35:03
And I guess this is where the precepts or even the practice of restraining yourself comes into play. Because when your defilements are high, when your emotions run high, as you mentioned, it is where we it, we are so tempted to just nail the shit out of the person, right, that we really despise, be that someone else or be that ourselves. So it’s the element of really restraining, and I guess this is where the self compassion piece comes into play , to know that the suffering that you feel it’s hard like a rock, how can you allow the gentleness, the softness of compassion, just like waves, you know, slowly, just ease out the tension, ease out the cracks, and slowly allow yourself to, I guess, dissolve and melt the pain. Slowly, just like you know, eroding away. Yeah. And I really don’t see any other way that could go through without compassion, because it’s really, you can’t use fire to fire a fire, you can use iron to fight with if you would just create a bigger mess. But that is the tendency, right, you want to hurt your pain, you want to hurt your hurt, because you know no other way. But actually, the only way is through compassion and from there, when your pain dissolves, you realise that all that is there is just that desire to want to be loved.
Kai Xin 36:32
I really like that it’s making self compassion, second nature to you on a daily basis.
Guest 36:38
One more which Cheryl mentioned, initially, mindfulness and then restrain, and then self compassion. in the Sedaka suta, where it was the story of two bamboo acrobats. One at the bottom one at the top. The disciple, the younger Acrobat at the top, actually told his master that was at the bottom, she or he, not sure the gender, but they said that if I take care of my balance, and you take care of your balance, then we will successfully perform. Whereas initially, the master insisted that you take care of my balance, and I take care of your balance. So there was an element there of self, focusing on self first. And in that Sutta, the Buddha mentioned that, indeed, the younger one was saying the right thing to focus on the self. And thereafter, he expounded that by focusing on the self, it is done through mindfulness meditations. And that is how you take care of yourself and in taking care of yourself, you take care of others. So we can see here that mindfulness is important to take care of yourself. And when we take care of ourselves, we take care of others, and how do we take care of others? Again, the Buddha commented that it is through compassion and goodwill. And in taking care of others, we take care of ourself. So it encapsulates what we talked about, about mindfulness, which leads to restrain, which also cultivates compassion.
Cheryl 38:18
And I’m just curious to know, you know, when you do this sort of work, where you deal with a lot of people who almost like presenting their gifts of pain to you, how do you take care of yourself?
Guest 38:33
That question recalled me of what Ajahn Chah said. So he does something similar in in his life, as a matter of fact, people go to him, talk to him about their problems and he told Ajahn Brahm, if I recall correctly, that you must be like a dustbin with a space that is open. Things go in, and then immediately comes out. So that is, of course the ideal state. With me going through this journey, what I’ve come to realise is that the choices are eventually made by them. It is not my choice. I’m here holding space, anything good happens it is to their credit to their own insights, anything undesirable happens, it is through their choice. So that in a way allows me to be at ease with whatever decision that was made.
Cheryl 39:26
I literally just got goosebumps, that’s so powerful. Thanks for sharing. And I think we can wrap up the episode with maybe a final sharing from our podcast guest today. Is there any advice or one thing that you would like our listeners to take away from this episode?
Guest 39:48
Since we are talking about mental health or other mental distress managing through them, it can be us managing them ourselves or us being there for others. I will have to offer two sets of advice. And we go back to what we’ve spoken about earlier. Cultivation of mindfulness allows us to see our own thoughts as they arise, and then try to create that space to respond, rather than react. This will allow us to then seek help in a more objective manner.
And in helping others, definitely, in generating the compassion, and also the wisdom to look, look out for signs and the courage to step up and ask how are you? They will definitely help those around us to allow them to have that space to talk to you.
Cheryl 40:42
Thank you so much. And with that, I hope this episode has been very inspiring and enlightening. And perhaps take action, reach out to someone, a close friend, a friend who’s distant and really truly ask them how are you? Provide a space for them to just share and let you know how they’re doing?
And if this episode has been beneficial to you feel free to also share this. You never know who might need to listen to this today. With that, thank you for tuning in all the way to the end and stay happy and wise.
Links and resources:
National Care Helpline: 1800-202-6868
SOS 24-hour Hotline: 1800-221-4444
Singapore Association for Mental Health: 1800-283-7019
