Ep24: Recipe to a 15-year healthy relationship

Ep24: Recipe to a 15-year healthy relationship

About our guest Kar Fei

Kar Fei coaches and grows individuals and executives into high performers in life. His life is obsessed with this question, “How can we be the best version of ourselves, and be happy and fulfilled in our lives?“.

He is part of the Hive Global Leadership Program (a community of leaders and entrepreneurs) and the Global Shapers Community by the World Economic Forum. He is also a TEDX Speaker, and a member of the Forbes Coaches council.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kai Xin:

Hi, welcome to another episode of the Handful Of Leaves podcast, where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life. This is another episode where we talk about romantic relationships. It’s part of a series. If you have missed the previous two episodes on the same topic, you can look back at our playlist wherever you listen to the podcast.

Today, we’re going to talk about how can we sustain a healthy and successful relationship despite having differences with our partners. Sustaining a healthy relationship requires a lot, a lot of hard work. And today we have a very special guest, Kar Fei, who is a motivational speaker as well as a life coach, to share with us how he kept the flame alive with his wife for 15 years. They have dated for 11 years, been married for four years with a beautiful child right now.

At the end of the episode, we’ll be sharing some reflections as well as resources on the Buddhist take on romantic relationships and true love. So, stick till the end if you’d like to find out more. Now let’s dive right in.

[00:01:08] Kai Xin:

Good to have you here with us Kar Fei. Really good to see you.

[00:01:12] Kar Fei:

Hi, Kai Xin. Hi Cheryl. Nice to see both of you. And thank you so much for having me on this podcast.

[00:01:18] Kai Xin:

Yes, I’m really excited to learn a lot from you, especially on the topic of growing with our partners, despite differences. And I think in the ideal sense, all of us wish that our partners would have similar traits and characteristics as us. We project our ideals onto them and that can be a source of conflict. So, today we’re gonna explore this topic deeper and give a brief introduction about you. You have been a life coach that guides people to live life more fully and be successful on their own terms, and you have also helped many people achieve ambitious goals, whether it’s getting promoted within six months or growing successful six-figure businesses.

I think there’s a lot that we can learn from you. You are also an expert coach. You’re in the Forbes Coaches Council as well as a TEDx speaker. I can go on and on, but if our listeners want to find out more about you, they can go to the show notes.

I think when it comes to success in life beyond material success, we also talk about relationships because we can have all the wealth and fame, but if our relationship with people is not good, then we don’t really have that true happiness.

So I know, typically, you talk more about corporate success and relationship success in this aspect, it’s not something that you even openly talk about to your followers if I’m not wrong. And I’m just wondering, what does a relationship mean to you, or what does a successful relationship mean to you?

[00:02:44] Kar Fei:

That’s a great question and you are actually right. This whole topic about relationships isn’t something that I talk a lot about, in terms of how to have a successful relationship in life. But I’ve actually talked a lot about my wife on my social media. A lot of people know who my wife is.

But that’s a really good question because I feel the thing about defining success in a relationship, is that it has to be broken down into a few categories. First, an intimate relationship, as well as your social relationship, are two very different things. So I guess for the sake of this podcast today, I’ll touch a lot more on intimate relationships, especially about me and my wife, and how we manage our relationship and our differences.

For me, a successful relationship is very simple. It is a relationship where it consists of three very important things: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Any successful relationship requires these three things, and when I say require these three things, it means it must have all three of them. If one of them actually does not exist, then the relationship might be shaky.

Let me give you an example. Take a look at our parents’ relationship, I’m not too sure about your parents, but my parents, they’ve been together for like 30 years, more or less. What I find interesting is that when I look at them as a couple, I actually don’t see love. I see commitment. They don’t hold hands.

[00:04:04] Kai Xin:

Very Asian.

[00:04:05] Kar Fei:

Exactly. It’s a very Asian thing. they don’t show emotions towards each other, and the way they talk to each other is a lot more of a commitment rather than having passion and intimacy in the relationship. Growing up, seeing them in a relationship, I can feel that it is not a harmonious, happy relationship. And since then, I realized that for any relationship to be successful, it requires these three things: intimacy, passion, and commitment. So that’s my definition of a successful relationship.

[00:04:36] Cheryl:

I’m really curious here, so you mentioned that your parents have been together for more than 30 years. If that’s not a success, then what is success for a relationship? Cause I would define it as being able to last through the ups and downs and weathering through everything, hopefully to the end of life.

[00:04:51] Kar Fei:

That’s an extremely good point. Because if they have been together for 30 years, how can we say that it’s not a successful relationship? It was for me how I feel about the relationship. I don’t think there will ever be a term for a successful relationship for 8 billion people in the world.

How I would define if my relationship is successful might be very different from how you define it with your partner, how my parents define it for themself. Because from what I see in my parent’s definition of a successful relationship, it’s being able to, number one, bring up the kids, make sure that they are healthy, successful, whatever. Number two, make sure that they don’t get a divorce. Again, it is a very Asian taboo thing. Even if they are not in a happy relationship, they will be contented or they will find ways to make it okay because the risk or the taboo of a divorce is way, way, way stronger than being in a relationship that doesn’t make you happy.

Growing up, seeing their relationship, I learned what I don’t want in a relationship. Because I don’t want a relationship where I am with you purely because I’m afraid of a divorce. I’m with you because 20 years ago, we have already signed a piece of paper and we’re committed to each other till death do us part.

I know what I don’t want when I look at that relationship and from then on, I start to figure out what exactly I want from a relationship. And when I figure out the three things — intimacy, commitment, and passion, that was what kept my relationship going.

There are times when you don’t feel that there’s passion, you feel a lot of commitment, so you have to find ways to bring up the passion. And the thing about these three things is that it is not an end goal. These three things are a process until the end of the relationship. So for me, to have a successful relationship is when I’m able to have that three things with my partner in life.

[00:06:58] Kai Xin:

That’s so important because I see also there’s a shift from relationships being very functional and practical. Like, oh, let’s raise kids and family in order to, I think in, in the old days, it’s so that you can farm, you can, help out, you know?

[00:07:12] Kar Fei:

Exactly.

[00:07:12] Kai Xin:

Take care of the entire family or take care of the parents when they grow old. Now, I think because we have a choice, with the change in women’s role in society, we now have a choice as to who should we settle down with. And then there’s also an increasing number of divorces. I think people have come to realize that, hey, there’s really no point just sucking it up when there’s a build-up of resentment where I really hate my partner, but just still stick with it. People have a choice to then leave their nuclear family.

[00:07:41] Kar Fei:

Exactly.

[00:07:41] Kai Xin:

But I thought it was interesting that you talk about intimacy and passion. I’m a very practical person, and I’m not naturally very forthcoming when it comes to physical touch. We have different love languages, right? So, can you share a little bit more as to why intimacy and passion are important to sustain a relationship?

[00:08:01] Kar Fei:

Well, I think first things first, passion is what gets you into a relationship in the first place. At least from, again, my own experiences and probably some experiences of me, my clients, and how they get into a relationship and so on. Passion is the spark and it’s the fire. So, that is pretty straightforward.

Now, the second thing is actually intimacy. You mentioned you’re not very comfortable with physical touch, but the thing is even though we have different love languages, intimacy can be translated in many different ways. And one of the very important things to really understand as well is that to a certain extent, our biological human nature requires some form of intimacy, it can be in the form of sex and also in a form of just touch. It could be in a form of hugs. You don’t need to do many things, but to a certain extent, intimacy also means being next to the person, without the touch. It also means how you are at home with your partner every single day or every single night. For example, when I have my son Lucas, he’s two years old right now, intimacy was something that we were lacking because obviously taking care of a baby and all these things. But we manage by actually spending time together almost every night before we sleep. It could be just sitting next to each other watching TV, or it could be us sitting next to each other doing our own thing and just being there in silence.

And for both of us as well, sometimes it’s her doing her own thing on the sofa and me watching TV while giving her a massage, and that is the form of intimacy that we are also talking about. So intimacy can come from many different aspects, but the most important thing we need to know is that in human relationships, human nature in general, we are social creatures.

So intimacy is something that we crave, something that humans have had since prehistoric times when our ancestors were living in caves, sitting around bonfires and having conversations. We talk to each other, next to each other. That’s the kind of intimacy that human beings are being brought up with. So it’s a very human thing, in my opinion.

[00:10:05] Kai Xin:

Yeah. And I think scientifically, physical touch does stimulate the release of some form of endorphins, right? And it’s healthy in some sense. I’d like to bring in a little bit of a Buddhist concept because I think when people think of intimacy, there’s a lot of desire.

Sometimes to the extreme, it can be lust, but I do feel like it can be on shaky grounds if the relationship is on the foundation of intimacy and passion, then it would be successful. This is why I think actually commitment becomes very important because it’s about loyalty. And I think adding to the mix of the three sauces of a good relationship, it’s also understanding. Because just now the example you gave is that people can be really unhappy in a relationship, and that’s because there’s no mutual understanding. So they are committing for the sake of committing. But, what if there are ways to commit without intimacy, without passion? Because if it’s only these two, then any other temptations outside of the relationship, like people giving you more attention or maybe physically they touch you a little bit more, they hug you and you feel good then. I think that’s where cheating happens.

[00:11:12] Kar Fei:

I guess that’s why in the beginning, it’s very important to realize that a successful relationship is a combination of all three. Because if you think about it, as you mentioned, if it’s only a relationship that is only purely based on passion and intimacy, it’s probably a relationship where you won’t want to get married to this person, because once you wanna get married to the person, it’s a next level of commitment, right? It’s about probably starting a family, having kids, etc. If it’s a relationship that is purely based on commitment and intimacy. What does that mean? There’s no love, but only commitment and intimacy. We have seen all this before, right?

[00:11:51] Cheryl:

It’s responsibility.

[00:11:52] Kar Fei:

Correct. And the question is, responsibility for what? That one is up to the partner. But again, without all three together, then it becomes a very different form of relationship. That might be what the individuals need at the point in time, but it might not be helping them to have a sustainable long-term relationship.

So if you’re talking about a long-term relationship, it’s one where all three of them are present at any moment in time. I talk about these three things a lot with some of my clients sometimes, which is really because of my own upbringing. Our first role models for relationships are always our parents. How your parents are when they’re together shapes how you become when you grow up.

[00:12:38] Kai Xin:

That’s so true.

[00:12:39] Kar Fei:

And this can be manifested in many things, not just your intimate relationship, your self-confidence, your emotional regulation, and how you manage your emotion. And these are all scientific studies. Scientific studies have shown that how parents actually show love to each other, and how they manage their own relationship, would have a positive or negative effect on the children when their children grow up.

So for me, what I found out was, I realized that my parents were not really in the happiest relationship, and for me, I wanted to avoid that at all costs. That’s the reason why I figured out what is the best way for me to manage and maintain a long-term relationship. That’s why I have been with my wife for 11, 12 years before I got married. Including our yeas of marriage, we are right now in our 15th year together, so those three things together combined is the one that really makes the relationship last. But of course, we also need to talk about a lot of other things outside of these three things for a relationship to continue to last. It could be, you know, your vision of what you want in your life, the quality of life that both partners require, parenting. All these things also play a part to maintain the relationship, for a long period of time.

[00:13:53] Kai Xin:

Definitely, there needs to be some form of alignment. I heard from Cheryl that like, you’re actually very different from your wife. Maybe you can share a little bit more about how you find the alignment when you’re so different and what are the differences.

[00:14:06] Kar Fei: Okay.

Let’s talk about the differences right now. If all of you listening to the podcast and you know for yourself as well, Kai Xin, I’m a hardcore personal development fan and my job is personal development coaching, life coaching, and leadership coaching, I do corporate training, and all these kind of different things.

Fun fact number one, my wife has never attended any form of personal development course in her life. Now, I’m not even talking about attending my course because attending my course is a bit off, right? I mean, your partner come to your course and your program; I think that’s a bit off. But she’s never taken anything in terms of coaching in the personal development space and all this kind of stuff.

So it was that extreme, that different. Second, my wife used to be a banker, but not anymore. Right now, she works in an operations team in the bank, and at the same time, she’s actually also very creative. Creative in a sense she’s very good with artistic skills, taking pictures. If you’re on Instagram, you can see, that I’m the total opposite of that. I failed my art class when I was 14 years old in high school.

So, we are extremely different in that sense. But what really help us in our relationship was our vision of what we wanted for our life. In our first to second year of our relationship, we actually started talking a little bit about what we feel the future could be like; what do we think the world should be like? What do we think our future could look like? And, it was those conversations that helped us to see the similarities that we have and differences that we have.

And the beautiful thing about this is that we noticed that a lot more things are similar about what we want for our life and what we want for the future. And that sort of became a vision that we constantly moved towards. So, that’s why over the years, in different things that we talk about, that vision, that future becomes what holds us together. When we talk about financials, when we talk about buying a house, when we talk about her quitting her job to take care of Lucas full-time at home, from having a baby. You know, like when is the right time? How do we manage our parenting styles?

All these things that we talk about are aligned with us and with the future that we wanna have. So when all these little things have disagreements, we always look towards the future: at the end of the day, what is it that we want? That helps us to agree to disagree in terms of our differences. That helps us to manage some of the differences in terms of opinions or ideas that we have about the relationship and about the family. So that’s what really helped us so far in the past 15 years.

[00:16:51] Cheryl:

So it’s almost as though there’s a hierarchy of importance in terms of what is similar and what is different. And the most important thing that should be similar should be the shared vision that both of you have.

[00:17:03] Kar Fei:

Correct.

[00:17:03] Cheryl:

And was shared vision something that you just spoke about it and it happened to be similar or was it something that you worked together towards getting to a shared vision?

[00:17:13] Kar Fei:

Actually, for us, it was something that we talked about and you just feel it’s right. But obviously, I guess what really happened as well was because when we were in a relationship together, we were only 19.

So when we start talking about stuff, we were probably about 20, 21 years old. At that point in time, there were certain things that were shaky in the sense that we are not sure. But we have the commitment to communicate with each other when things don’t go well or things don’t go right.

Now, lemme give you an example. When I was 21, 22 years old, I started my first coaching business. And at a point in time again, when you are young, you start your own business, of course, you can take all the risks you want, and do everything you can. But at the same time, my wife being a very practical person, she’s a bit worried. Like, you know, if you’re starting a business, that means your income will be lesser than mine because she started working and all this stuff. And then what about the future? We were thinking of buying a house. How will we be able to buy a house in the next three to five years and et cetera?

So there are a lot of questions because of that decision of mine where I wanted to start a business. But when we sat down and then we became very realistic because we have a commitment to each other. So we’re like, Yes, the concerns are legit, but how can we minimize the risk? How can we minimize the concern?

And that was when we agreed that if my business does not take off within the next three years, I will go and look for a job to have a sustainable, monthly income kind of thing. And that was actually what happened. The coaching business didn’t take off, and after about two and a half to three years, I actually got a job offer.

I was headhunted by someone to join a company as an internal coach. When that opportunity came, it was a relatively easy decision to make. It was a painful decision for me because I started a business, I told myself, I told everyone that I founded a company, I do coaching, and now I’m going back to employment.

It took a hit on my ego, to a certain extent. But she kind of really kept me accountable. She’s like, you know what? This is what we have agreed upon, and this is the reality of what’s happening. The business is really not taking off, and we wanna have a long-term plan for our future, and this sounds like the best option at that point in time. So obviously I took the job and then, the rest is history, right? So that really helps us in terms of making decisions and whatnot. And I just want to add to what Cheryl said, right? At the end of the day, actually, the hierarchy is actually very important. Because we actually hear different things. We hear also, you know, the birds of a feather flock together.

[00:20:02] Cheryl:

Opposites attract and so on.

[00:20:02] Kar Fei:

Exactly. So there’s also, opposite attracts. My personal opinion. Both works. But it’s just a matter of what. I think the very important things in our life, it has to be relatively similar. And think about it. What is the most important thing in our life? It’s not your job, it’s not your title. It’s not how much money you have, it’s actually the future, the vision, your personal values, your personal characteristics, your vision of the future that you wanna have with this person and how you want the future to look like. Those are at the top of the hierarchy, the important things.

Those things that are different are the not-so-important things, e.g. what you like to do, what you like to eat, you know those things. We can tolerate each other throughout the relationship, all these little things. She doesn’t like sports. I love sports. You know, all these are different things. These are small things, but if you are committed to each other enough, then these small things, it’s easy to manage.

[00:21:07] Cheryl:

I think you shared a lot of big words and I think it may be good to define them, especially what are the important things, like personal characteristics, and personal values. What do you mean by these terms? Because, for example, someone who is a gym couple, if you tell them, having different habits could still work. They will argue with you until the cows come home. So maybe, share the clear definitions, and if you could help us with some examples, that could work as well.

[00:21:34] Kar Fei:

So I think two things at the highest level, or maybe three, right? Number one, it’s the future. Now one of the things that we need to define is that when you get into a relationship, to a certain extent, you’re not thinking of the relationship for the now. The relationship usually it’s for the long term, for the future.

Of course. I know there are people who say, “No, Kar Fei. I only wanna get into a relationship for the now, for the present.” Well, then it’s okay. But I can guarantee you that after two to three years, thoughts about the future will start to come, right? Because we only get older, we never get younger, the future will come.

So for me, the future is one of the very important things, which is how we envision our future together. Now when I say how we envision our future together, that includes both of us people and also our role as parents if you wanna have kids. If you don’t wanna have kids, then it’s okay. Then it’s just the two of you, right? And that is very important to define. For example, for some people, their vision of the future is – I will never own a house, but for other people, owning a house is a very important thing. Again, this is not about the house itself. This is about the principle behind having the house.

And that’s where the second thing comes in, which is your personal values. What do you as a person value the most in life? It could be different things. It could be relationship, it could be career, it could be freedom because all these personal values translate into different things in life. For someone who wants freedom, you probably wouldn’t wanna have kids. If you want freedom, you’re probably better off owning a dog. You can put your dog somewhere else, but when you have a kid, you can’t to a certain extent. So that’s the second thing, which is personal values. The important thing is you need to understand what’s important for you, for your life, and for both of us, one thing in common that we found is growth.

And when we say growth, you guys might be thinking, “Hey, Kar Fei, but you say your wife is not interested in personal development. The thing about it is when I talk about growth, it’s not just about personal development. It’s not just about technical skills. It’s about how interested we are in becoming a better person or in becoming a better parent. Now for me, because of what I do, I’m very much into growing and learning new things about personal development, but my wife on the other hand likes to read up on new stuff, all the art-related stuff. She likes to research different things just to fill her creative mind. She likes to read up on things just for the sake of it, and that’s her way of growing now. And how this growth actually helps us in our relationship is that when I learn something new about personal development, life coaching and all these things, I will share it with her and she will listen. When she learns new things, she will share them with me and I will listen.

And this is actually our second value, which is curiosity. So what we found out is that we are very curious about each other, what we do and what are the things we enjoy doing. Sometimes she loves to do certain things and I’d ask her, “Why do you like to do these things? Why do you have to take a thousand pictures, you know, when you’re in a cafe, right?” I hated it in the first few years. But eventually, it became second nature to me. Some people call it Instagram husband and Instagram boyfriend, whatever. It became second nature to me because she enjoys looking at those pictures; she enjoys editing photos; she enjoys recalling memories based on pictures.

So, that for me is the two things. The vision of the future, personal values, and the last one is basically your personal characteristic, your personal traits. You need to know yourself well enough to know what are the things that you can tolerate, what are the things that you cannot tolerate in a relationship. So again, let me give you an example. I’m an extremely punctual person. Extremely punctual. My definition of being on time is 20 minutes before time. I was actually online already like before you guys.

[00:25:34] Kai Xin:

Yes. You were early.

[00:25:36] Kar Fei:

But my wife is just on time. Let’s say the breakfast is 9:00 AM. Her definition of on time is, I’ll arrive at 9:00 AM, just on time. Obviously, at the beginning of the relationship I couldn’t take it. It drives you mad. Freaking drives me mad. But the passion, the intimacy and the commitment I have for her trumps that.

And thankfully I have the patience to wait. I’m one of the most patient people you have ever seen in the world, right? And that helps me to really manage my own emotion, manage my own thing, and give her that space, give her that time. Obviously, my personal development skills kind of help me to manage it.

But it’s very important to know if you’re someone who cannot tolerate it, then probably it’ll be very difficult for you. So that’s the three key things that I think are highly important, and that everyone needs to talk about in a long-term relationship.

[00:26:36] Kai Xin:

I love that. So it seems like vision, values and personal characteristics, fuel the passion, intimacy, and the need for commitment. I’m just wondering, could it be a chicken and egg thing? Because what if the personality traits or certain values are misaligned and that erodes the passion, and that erodes the intimacy, then how would you work on that?

[00:27:00] Kar Fei:

So, in a lot of my coaching work, one of the things that I noticed, not just in relationships, but for anyone in life, is that people generally become very unfulfilled, and unhappy because of values misalignment. It’s when what they think they want, and what they really want are misaligned. So in the context of relationships, as you mentioned, when things are misaligned, it erodes the commitment, the relationship, and whatnot, then it’s important to actually communicate.

It’s very important to actually talk about it. And that’s one of the things that I think works really well for me and my wife — communication. When we feel that there’s something incongruent or misaligned, we will talk about it even though it’s difficult. Sometimes my wife is the one that brings it up because again, I’m the more patient person. Whenever there are problems or challenges, I can sit on it and wait until shit happens, that’s my level.

[00:28:07] Cheryl:

So somewhat avoidant.

[00:28:09] Kar Fei:

Correct. I’m a peacemaker, right? So I avoid risk; I avoid confrontation. My wife, on the other hand, will bulldoze through. She will say things as it is; she’ll point them out exactly as it is even though it is painful to hear.

So there were a few times in our life, in our relationship where there are certain things that start to misalign, which is the timing of having kids. Because again, men being men, I was very much thinking I need to be successful in my career to make a certain amount of money and financial income and all these things in order for me to have kids.

But on the other hand, she has this belief that she needs to give birth before she’s 30 years old. Now obviously, is this scientifically proven that women should give birth before 30? I think it is highly debatable. It’s a 50-50 thing. I know a lot of people give birth between 40 to 45 years old. But for her, it is very important. And the thing is, there were past experiences that happened to her in the family that created this belief. Now then the question to me is — which one is more important? Is making enough money to have kids more important than respecting her belief and her body because she’s the one who’s giving birth? Which one is more important for the relationship?

[00:29:36] Kai Xin:

How do you come to that reflection? Because I would think that maybe other people might have other views, right? To say I’m young and if I wait till I’m past 40 to have kids, I’ll be tied down. Then, I can’t be successful in my career anymore. So there’s no thought about respecting women’s body or whatsoever. So it’s very wise of you to even think of that, and it’s very considerate and very loving. How do you even come to that conclusion?

[00:30:05] Kar Fei:

This is where coaching comes into place. Shameless plug, get a coach.

[00:30:11] Kai Xin:

Hire Kar Fei.

[00:30:13] Kar Fei:

But on a serious note, that is actually true. And how do I get to that realization? It’s because I have a coach. My coach actually challenges me because I talk about this with my coach and I don’t just talk to one, I talk to a few other mentors as well, and I have mentors who are way, way older than me. My mentors are 60 – 65 years old. I also have mentors in their 40’s and they actually question me and challenge me, “Kar Fei, at the end of the day, who’s the one giving birth?” And I’m like, obviously her. So what’s more important? Is making money more important than respecting this woman that you love, who’s gonna give birth to your children in the next couple of years?

And that kind of shocked me, right? It’s like, hold on a second, right? How can I be so selfish and just think about myself when this whole parenting thing is an equal thing? And most importantly, to be fair, I actually don’t think parenting is equal. The mother puts a lot more effort into carrying through pregnancy, giving birth, and taking care of the kids. At that point in time, it really struck me and my coach even asked me another more important question — How much money is enough to have kids, and there’s no answer to it.

[00:31:30] Kai Xin:

Oh, really? I thought you can work out the math.

[00:31:33] Kar Fei:

Yeah, you can work out the math. I can tell you right. Easily RM 1 million. In Singapore, maybe SGD 1 million. I don’t know. But for me, we have sort of looked at the numbers. It’s almost RM 1 million, to a certain extent. It depends on the quality of life. A million ringgit. Will I be able to get a million ringgit cash in the bank in the next three years?

Actually, no. I mean, I can make probably another RM 100K, another RM 200K in the three years before the ideal age to get kids, but then that means it’s still not enough. So, how many more years do you wanna work until you get RM 1 million then you’ll be ready to have kids?

[00:32:09] Kai Xin:

So you’re saying that you don’t have to be fully financially able or like in an ideal sense to start thinking about kids? Because, I’m having a little bit of a struggle here trying to understand, cause traditionally when we talk about financial management, we wanna make sure that there’s proper planning so that when our kids are born, they don’t suffer and they are given a good environment and lifestyle. But then what you are saying is you will never be fully ready. So maybe set the bare minimum.

[00:32:39] Kar Fei:

In a sense, yes, of course, if you wanna have kids, then you also need to make sure that your finances are in place, right? So at least at a point in time we have our own reserves e.g. one-year savings here and there, we have some assets, we bought a house, we have all these things in place, but I was overthinking it. I was overthinking in the sense that I need to have a few 100K in the bank in order for me to give my son or my daughter the best life possible. I was thinking too far ahead, but the thing is, again, this is just pure parenting. You’ll never be ready to be a parent. The only time when you’re ready to be a parent is when your kids are born. That’s the only time right?

[00:33:21] Kai Xin:

Some are also not ready when the kids are born.

[00:33:23] Kar Fei:

Exactly. So from a financial point of view, yes, have some money, have some savings. That’s important, but don’t overthink it. That’s the reason why my coach asked the question. How much do you need? Honestly, if you really wanna have kids, how much do you really, really need? RM 50K to 100K in the first two years probably. Actually, I have that in the bank, right? So how much more do you need? How much more ready do you need to become? That was when I realized that the money thing is an ongoing thing. Even if I make 1 million now and I’m ready to have kids, I will still continue to work to make more money.

[00:34:01] Kai Xin:

Yeah. So it’s not so much of a destination, but it’s like you have the starting point and then the rest is a process.

[00:34:07] Kar Fei:

Correct. It’s a process of getting there. But on the other hand, for my wife, it is not, she needs to give birth. And her age will not decrease. It will just go up. So at that point, it’s about give-and-take.

[00:34:21] Kai Xin:

It’s the opportunity cost.

[00:34:22] Kar Fei:

Okay, which one is more important? And then the point is, you know what? The relationship is more important. So let’s do it, get married and all this stuff. So that’s how we kind of manage that. So again, at the end of the day, this thing is all about communication. It’s really about communicating. Taking time to understand. Communicating doesn’t just mean I wanna have kids now, if you don’t want to, then we’ll break up.

[00:34:47] Cheryl:

My way or the highway.

[00:34:48] Kar Fei:

Exactly, that’s not communication, right? That is confrontation. Communication is when you communicate, you take time off to really understand, to really think, to really process, and then make the best decision for the relationship.

[00:35:04] Kai Xin:

Could you share a little bit more about how you approach communicating on differences and try to find a workaround? How do you even start a conversation? Because deferring views sometimes can get you very heated and then you’re just thinking from your own perspective.

[00:35:23] Kar Fei:

Very good question. I just talked about this with a friend of mine a couple of days ago over dinner. The keyword is two things: (1) Curiosity, (2) Intention. So especially when it’s about differences, right? See, it’s easy when we talk about similar stuff. That’s why couples who are very similar to each other generally have it very easy in the beginning.

Because the whole relationship is based on their similarities, right? As Cheryl mentioned, let’s just say a gym power couple. Maybe their whole life or their whole relationship is based on exercising together, going to the gym, eating healthy, working out, sports, and all that. Again, there’s nothing wrong. I’m just giving an example, right? But, what about their differences? What if one of them is very much into going to the gym and another one is not? How can these two still be a good couple together on a long-term basis? The first one is actually curiosity. So for me, curiosity is what actually got us to communicate really well.

Curiosity about the other person. See, when we are trying to communicate differences or when we are trying to communicate, we are actually not trying to tell the other person what we know. Our job is to be curious about each other, because remember — fundamentally, what is a relationship? A relationship is your relationship with another person. It’s not your relationship with yourself. So you wanna have a good relationship, you need to know the other person; you need to be curious about the other person. That helps in communication a lot. That’s number one.

Number two is intention. When you’re communicating the differences and you’re trying to be curious about the other person, you need to have the right intention, especially when you’re communicating or when you’re receiving the communication. So when you’re communicating, you need to be very clear. Your intention is to share. Your intention is not to make the person agree with you because you just can’t have everyone agree with you on every single thing, right? So, the intention is very important.

On the other hand, as the receiver of the communication, you also need to know the intention of the person communicating with you, and you also need to ask yourself — What is my intention listening to this person? Is my intention to prove him wrong? Or is it my intention to be curious? Or is my intention to listen? Or is my intention to understand?

These two key things really make or break communication in relationships. And, and I personally believe these are the two things that really help me and my wife over the past 15 years, we always communicate at the dinner table. Sometimes, I find it very sad because before we have kids, we always eat out, pre-MCO. And every time when we are at the dining table, they don’t play on their phones, we don’t use our phones much, and we always have conversations. I realize that a lot of other couples at other tables having dinner, they’re either doing their own thing, or they’re on their phones, or they’re just there not talking to each other.

[00:39:01] Kai Xin:

They’re not present.

[00:39:03]: Kar Fei:

Yeah. How is that even possible? Because for both of us, if it’s a one-hour dinner, we probably have like 45 minutes of things to talk about non-stop. How come other couples have nothing to talk about? How come we have so many things to talk about? And I slowly realized it’s the curiosity and the intention that kind of got us into that communication.

[00:39:23] Kai Xin:

Wary of time, we’re gonna wrap up soon. Cheryl, do you have any last questions to ask Kar Fei?

[00:39:29] Cheryl:

Maybe some questions that couples could use to reflect on, to ask each other to be more curious and more intentional in their relationship.

[00:39:40] Kar Fei:

I think the most practical tip in that sense is that everyone needs to practice how to listen. The reason why I say this is because, it’s interesting to see that every time when someone communicates, especially when we are communicating about differences, or when we are communicating about something that the other person is probably not so knowledgeable about, and when we listen to those things, it’s very easy for us to just either dismiss them or give them a bit of a passive reaction. But if you are really listening, you are able to pay attention to what your partner is saying or what the other person said, and actually ask better questions.

So when you listen well, you are able to ask, “Oh, so you’re saying that this happened. Can you tell me more?”, “Oh, you are saying that this happened in the workplace, but I don’t understand why did it happen?” See, the challenge with a lot of communication breakdowns is that people don’t listen enough.

People always want to talk, but they don’t listen well or listen enough to ask good questions or to have a good conversation. So the most practical skill I can give, Number one, listen attentively to the other person, to your partner when your partner is talking and then ask questions. Trust me, asking questions solves probably 80% of communication breakdowns because the more questions you ask, of course, it has to come from a curiosity mindset, okay? Not from a judging and questioning mindset. When you ask questions, your partner will be more likely or they’ll be happy to share more with you. They’ll be happy to tell you a little bit more. That’s when you get to know your partner a little bit more. That’s when you get to know what really is happening in your partner’s mind or in their work and et cetera. So for me, listening and then asking questions, I think these are two extremely practical things that couples should do.

And the third one, you know, something that I want to share that all couples should really do, it’s block time for date nights. I cannot emphasize this enough. Date nights have been something that we have been doing for 11 years until MCO and until we have a two-year-old in our house. We actually go and watch movies every Thursday night without fail. Without fail, it’s probably 80% of the time, the remaining 20% happens if I am flying somewhere for work or if I’m outstation for work. If we are both in the same place, Thursday nights, we will definitely go to the movies by default, and that’s our date night.

[00:42:36] Cheryl:

So it doesn’t have to be like a conversation kind of thing. You can just be doing something together.

[00:42:41] Kar Fei:

The thing is that when you’re committed to doing something together at a specific time of the week, naturally you will have things to talk about. Naturally, the conversation starts to happen. Because at the time, so on our Thursday date nights is our movie nights. The moment we finish work at six o’clock, we’ll go to the shopping mall. We’ll have dinner from probably 7:00 PM to 8:30 PM or 9:00 PM. We’ll watch a movie from 9:00 PM to 11:00 PM or 11:30 PM, and then we’ll take 30 minutes to drive home. So basically, we’re together from 6:00 PM or 7:00 PM until midnight, just the two of us, no friends, nothing, no work, no phones, etc. It’s just the two of us, and that generally will spark conversations. You know, late-night drives on the highway, you’ll get some conversations. The thing is, of course, it is also important to be intentional about creating time for reflection.

I know some of my mentors, they actually spend five days where both of them, without the kids, would travel somewhere to plan their 2023 goals and reflect upon the years. My wife is not so interested in that, but my wife is interested in nature, so what we do is usually, again, pre-covid, end of the year, we’ll travel somewhere. We’ll sit somewhere, have coffee for half a day without going to any tourist spots, and just start having conversations. How’s the business? What will the business be like next year? This year you’re not doing so well, what about next year? This kind of conversation happens naturally for us. So what helps us are the date nights.

[00:44:19] Cheryl:

Yeah, and I think having that time set is also a strong signal for commitment, that you show up for your relationship no matter how many things are going on for you.

[00:44:27] Kar Fei:

Great. And do you know how committed I was to the date night thing? All my best friends and my business partners know they can never book my Thursdays. They know that it’s non-negotiable. So they know that it is a commitment Kar Fei has to his partner. Like, there’s nothing that could take it away. Unless again, I’m travel for the whole week somewhere. That is an exceptional case. So if they need me or they want me for, let’s just say a Chinese New Year dinner or a big occasion, they actually text my wife straight away.

[00:45:03] Cheryl:

They are stealing Kar Fei this time.

[00:45:06] Kar Fei:

Correct, correct. So, that’s how we define commitment for our date nights.

[00:45:13] Kai Xin:

That’s very good practice. Thank you so much. We have learned so much from the very beginning. I think everything ties very nicely together, so we talk about intimacy, passion and commitment, and towards the middle, the level of communication to build understanding, and curiosity with good intentions then helps to fuel that intimacy, passion and commitment.

We talk about three things, which are values, vision, and personal characteristics. It all has to align. So we have quite a good framework over here. I think the underlying thing it’s really about trying to build harmony by being present. Also, from a Buddhist perspective, we need to be wary of our mental state. Do we always wanna get what we want? Because not getting what we want is gonna bring some form of agitation or getting what we don’t want is also gonna bring some form of agitation. So recognizing that would allow us to show up more fully in a conversation to say, “Hey, actually, I don’t necessarily always have to get what I want out of this, but let me just be here and see how things unfold.”

[00:46:23] Kar Fei:

Yeah, exactly. That’s a good summary of what we have talked about so far, actually.

[00:46:28] Kai Xin:

Thank you so much, Kar Fei. It’s been wonderful.

[00:46:30] Kar Fei:

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. That was a great episode. Thank you so much for having me here.

[00:46:34] Kai Xin:

Thank you so much. Bye.

[00:46:37] Kai Xin:

What are your thoughts on this episode? What do you think is the most important element that makes a successful relationship? Or what is your definition of a successful relationship? Is it about commitment, curiosity, understanding, and intention?

You know, as I was editing this episode, I still have this doubt about the part on passion and intimacy. And is there really such thing as true love from a Buddhist perspective, when we are taught to let go, not have any kind of attachment and not to kind of feed on our sense desires?

I felt like that part was kind of missing from the conversation. So I went to do a little bit of research and found really beautiful sayings from Ven. Thích Nhất Hạnh. And this is what he has said.

The Buddha never said anything negative about true love. If you’re successful in romantic love, you would cultivate a lot of loving-kindness and compassion, and very soon, your love will be embracing.

Ven. Thích Nhất Hạnh

And he also gave an analogy:

If you pour a handful of salt into a cup of water. The water becomes undrinkable. But if you pour the salt into a river, people can continue to draw water to cook, wash, and drink. The river has the capacity to receive, embrace and transform. When our hearts are small, our understanding and compassion are limited and we suffer. We can’t accept or tolerate others and their shortcomings, and we demand that they change. But when our hearts expand, the same thing doesn’t make us suffer anymore. We have a lot of understanding and compassion and can embrace others. We accept others as they are and then they have a chance to transform.

Ven. Thích Nhất Hạnh

A forest monk, Ajahn Jayasaro, also talked about loving-kindness in a romantic relationship. In his book, On love, he has a paragraph that reads:

Those who have what the Buddha called as ‘Right View’ would train themselves to see love in terms of the Four Noble Truths. They train themselves to acknowledge Love’s inherent deficiencies in order to try to find appropriate value and meaning they should give to love in their lives. They attempt to abandon impurities in the heart that cause suffering in spite of the presence of love. Their goal is to avoid or minimize the suffering that arises from love and to achieve and give as much happiness as possible. Finally, they used the Buddha’s teachings to train their action, speech and mind to lead their love in the direction of loving-kindness, as much as possible inspired by the awareness of the beauty of a love that is unconditioned.

Ajahn Jayasāro

So this concept of loving-kindness is so important from the Buddhist perspective when it comes to a romantic relationship because a lot of conflicts come from this sense of wanting to control in order to change things to our own liking and to serve ourselves rather than serve our partner. And like what Thích Nhất Hạnh mentioned, that comes from a very small heart, but when we have loving-kindness, it doesn’t discriminate.

It is not so much of I’m right, you’re wrong because I have this particular difference, I’m superior and you’re inferior. There is no sense of such judgemental comparison. But it comes from a very wholesome place of wanting to support, wanting to care and reducing and minimizing suffering. And with all of these, it becomes very nurturing. Its kind of like a relationship is a safe place for you to always turn to, it’s like a home, a refuge where you can always feel a sense of comfort and security.

And I think that would be my definition of a successful and healthy relationship. It’s not so much about, you know, having physical intimacy where you show affection through holding hands, hugs or kisses, like what’s romanticized in a lot of TV drama, but rather, it’s really the sense that you have a very, very good companion who is supporting you on the path to being free from suffering and you supporting your partner to be free from suffering as well.

Let me know what your thoughts are and what your definition of true love is.

There are links to resources on this topic from a Buddhist perspective. That you can find it in the show notes, or you can go to a website to read the full transcript.

And in the next episode, we have another very special guest, Siew Lin, who is experiencing stage four breast cancer. And she shares her journey on how she experiences the entire process and sheds some light on how friends and loved ones can be of better support. What are the best things to say and what not to say, when you find out that your loved one has been diagnosed with cancer.

So till the next episode, may you stay happy and wise and may you cultivate boundless love. See you.

Connect with Kar Fei

IG: instagram.com/coachkarfei
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karfeicheah/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liferedesigned.co

Resources on Buddhist’s take on romantic love

Book: On Love, by Ajahn Jayasaro

In this book, Ajahn Jayasaro, a monk from the Theravada Buddhist forest tradition, breaks down four types of love, and how to develop a love that is free of suffering. Here’s an excerpt:

Even the purest love needs to be constantly cleansed. Why is it necessary to keep cleansing love? The easy answer is that it tends to get soiled. And the dirt that soils it is suffering and the cause of suffering: craving. Since we human beings do not desire even a shred of suffering and gladly accept every little bit of happiness that comes our way, it makes sense for us to ensure that all the various aspects of our life, including love, be as conducive to happiness and as safe from suffering as possible. Love is a part of life which we need to imbue with wisdom and understanding.

Does Buddhism support romantic love? By Thich Nhat Hanh

In this talk, Thich Nhat Hanh shares the Four Elements of True Love.

Romantic love, if it is true love, can also bring a lot of happiness. But if it is not true love, it will make you suffer and make the other person suffer as well.

Book: How to love by Thich Nhat Hanh

Special thanks to our sponsors for this episode:

Tan Key Seng, Soh Hwee Hoon, Geraldine Tay, Venerable You Guang, Wilson Ng, Diga, Joyce, Tan Jia Yee, Joanne

Ep 22: Argue with your partner like a Buddhist (Ft Cynthia Kane)

Ep 22: Argue with your partner like a Buddhist (Ft Cynthia Kane)

About our guest, Cynthia Kane:

After the death of her first love, all Cynthia wanted was for someone to take away all the hurt and pain. What she realized, though, as she sat on her floor surrounded by tissues, was that she was going to have to find a way to do it for herself. Through this search, she found that communication was key. If she wanted to change the way she lived in the world she would have to change how she interacted with it, which meant changing how she talked with others and herself.

When she learned the elements of Right Speech in Buddhism she knew she’d found her way out of suffering,
yet she had no idea how actually to put the guidelines into practice, and so began her lifestyle experiment. And soon, the Kane Intentional Communication Practice was born. This practice has now been taught to more than 60k people and is changing marriages, work environments, family dynamics, friendships – lives. She also shares her work in her books:

Scroll down to redeem the free course “Communicate with Confidence” by Cynthia Kane.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kai Xin: Welcome to another episode of the Handful Of Leaves podcast, where we bring you practical Buddhist wisdom for a happier life.

Today, we’re really happy to have Cynthia Kane with us, an author of many books, one of them is “How to Communicate Like A Buddhist” and we are gonna talk about a topic that is quite interesting. It’s about how you argue like a Buddhist. I guess as Buddhists we don’t really think of arguing, but in life sometimes we just don’t see eye to eye with people. So it is quite inevitable that we have to resolve certain conflicts. And I know Cynthia, you have done a lot of great work connecting to the heart with people about how they can show up better in life, in different aspects, in order to really succeed and to live life a lot happier.

So perhaps we can start off with you introducing to our audience, how did you get into this line of work in communications.

[00:00:53] Cynthia: Well, thank you so much for having me here. I’m happy to spend this time with you. So, I got into this work because when I was younger, I thought I really wanted to grow up and help people communicate in a kind, honest and helpful way. I didn’t even know that it was a possible thing.

I used to be very passive-aggressive, very judgmental and very reactionary. Everything for me was either the best possible scenario or the worst possible scenario, and silence was really difficult for me to be in.

I liked to fill the space and just expressing myself was really, really difficult. I had a tendency to dance around certain topics as opposed to feeling confident enough, really to express myself clearly. So I didn’t realize though that the way that I was communicating or interacting was creating a lot of the doubt, fear and worry that I had.

So, Albert Einstein said, one of the most important questions you can ask yourself is — Is the world a friendly place? And I feel like whether I knew it or not, I didn’t actually feel that the world was a friendly place. And I had been with my first love for about seven and a half years. And we had decided to go our separate directions and we thought that the universe would bring us back together. And it did bring us back together four years later. And we met and we had a great conversation about what didn’t really work in our relationship. And one of the biggest pieces was communication.

And we decided we wanted to try and be in each other’s lives again. And then four months later, he passed away unexpectedly. And my whole world at that moment just went blank. I was just completely empty. I often liken it to just being like a blank canvas. It was like everything that was there before was just washed away.

And it was then that I realized that nobody could help me at that moment. Everybody was so lovely and kind and supportive, but it was just me alone, and I felt like if I was going to figure out how to be here and enjoy my life here, or time here, it was my responsibility. And so that’s when I went on the search to figure out how to enjoy being here and what I was finding with the seminars I was going to and the books that I was reading and the courses I was taking and everything was that communication was a big part of it, but I wasn’t actually learning how to communicate differently.

And a friend of mine introduced me to a writing and meditation workshop at the Shambala Institute in New York. At that point, I didn’t really know much about Buddhism. I had never meditated before and I was trying everything. When I went that weekend, it completely shifted everything for me. So that’s where I learned the elements of Right Speech in Buddhism, which the way I teach it is, to tell the truth, don’t exaggerate. Use helpful language and don’t gossip. And when I learned those plus meditation, it was my way out. Like I knew that this was how I was going to be able to move myself out of this place of suffering.

So with meditation, for me, the big piece was that it was the first time I was really allowing myself to be myself in this moment, right? To feel all the anger and the fear and the overwhelm, and at the same time hold space for such beauty in life. And it was just like an amazing experience to not judge myself through all of it.

And then with the elements of right speech, I was like, this is it. Because if I wanna change the way that I’m interacting with the world, I have to change the way I interact with the people within it. But then to really be able to change the way that I interact with people, I have to change how I interact with myself.

Then I woke up the next day, ‘This is lovely, but how do I do this?’. And then it became a practice for me. It became like a lifestyle experiment to practice communicating differently, and this is really how this all came to be.

I started communicating differently with myself. It shifted the way that I communicated with others. I started writing about it, wrote how to communicate like a Buddhist, and then started teaching about it. So the shifts that were happening in my life in terms of being able to express myself more clearly and consciously, to have more open relationships where I could actually be honest for the first time and not necessarily fear the other person’s reaction, being able to find love again. I mean, all these things were happening as a result of living each day with this practice. And then it started kind of rippling out and other people were being affected by it too. Then I started courses and training and all of that.

And so that’s really how I got here to this moment with you. So it’s been pretty wild.

[00:06:00] Kai Xin: Thanks for sharing your journey. You turned a negative circumstance into something so beautiful right now helping people. I’m so happy for you.

You mentioned something about how you communicate with yourself and how to communicate differently. Could you share some examples of the before and after? How did it shift?

[00:06:20] Cynthia: This is a very simple example, but before, I could drop a piece of paper on the ground or I could open the refrigerator and something would fall out, or I would be pouring some tea and water would splash over to the side and my reaction would be, you’re so stupid. Like, why did you do this? Or I can’t believe you did this. Now you’re gonna have to like go get paper towels. It’s gonna take you so much time and you have other things that you wanna be doing. It was just this, this voice that was just constantly upset at myself or judging myself for every little thing.

Whereas now, I can drop something and it’s just like, oh, I dropped something on the floor. It’s not good. It’s not bad. I’m not a bad person for it.

[00:07:05] Kai Xin: It’s just what it is.

[00:07:06] Cynthia: It’s just what it is. And it’s really understanding the idea of allowing things to be as they are, without judgment.

So, being really honest with ourselves and kind and helpful as opposed to where we usually go, which is not very kind and hurtful, and most of the way we talk to ourselves is an assumption, right? We don’t know a lot of the things that we worry about or fear. And a lot of the way that most people that we’ve worked with talk to themselves has to do with the things that they don’t know.

And so if you start to filter it through like, well, do you know this is true? It changes how you connect with yourself.

[00:07:52] Cheryl: Just really curious. Have you ever wondered where that voice of criticism comes from?

[00:07:58] Cynthia: I believe that the voice comes from past experiences that we have.

Other times where people have maybe labelled us as certain things when we’re young, whether people realize it or not. If somebody is like you’re shy or, you could be better at math, these are all things that we absorb. So I really believe it’s past experiences and it’s also absorbing the models that we see around us.

Because when it comes to communication, we’re never taught how to communicate right? Especially to ourselves. And so we really absorb and learn from our parents, our siblings, our partners, our friends, and our teachers. Also, I feel a sense of lack or scarcity.

The idea is that there are not enough things to go around. And so a lot of the way we talk to ourselves is like, I don’t have enough time to do this, or, you know, I’ll never be able to, you know, [insert anything there]. And all that comes from just this feeling that there’s not enough when really we know that there’s plenty.

[00:09:09] Kai Xin: So it kind of feels like you first need to solve your internal conflict in order to then be able to solve the external ones.

[00:09:17] Cynthia: Yeah.

[00:09:18] Kai Xin: Could you give some examples of common communication patterns that would cause a conflict between you and your partner, or you and your loved ones?

[00:09:27] Cynthia: I think some conflict is when you have something you want to ask for that’s difficult. Like with affection. If you are interested in asking for more affection in your relationship, but you are scared to do that, the fear of the other person’s reaction is what holds us back from asking for what we want or expressing ourselves.

And so what ends up happening is that because we fear the other person’s reaction, we hold everything in. Then at some point, we all have a default reaction. So one person might start getting passive-aggressive, another person might start lashing out, another person might start just, you know, lying or dismissing the other.

So, the less we express ourselves, the more we fall into these habits of communicating that aren’t helpful and that are hurtful. So one of the big pieces is really just holding everything in because we’re scared of what the other person is going to say. And really the work is, to start to practice in those moments, being able to allow the other person to have whatever reaction. And seeing like, can we just celebrate reaction in general? Whether good or bad, can we hold space for it? And then can we learn how to navigate it?

And again, it’s internal what’s happening in those moments. You are talking to yourself differently in those moments so that you can actually express yourself differently.

So I think the other piece too, is then you have the opposite of that where some people in relationships are very direct and very honest, and people will use that phrase while I’m just being honest, right? Yeah. But it’s like, yes, you can be honest, but it might not be kind, it might not be helpful and it might not be necessary.

So if you have honesty without compassion it can hurt. But if there’s compassion there, it’s easier for the other person to hear. And so I think then the opposite of that, where in partnerships you have one person who may be too direct, and then so the other partner just shuts down completely.

So then how does the one who is more expressive learn in some situations to shift the way that they’re communicating so that they can create a more accessible space or a more open space? So I think those are the two most common patterns that are seen.

One has a difficult time expressing themselves, and then another has an easier time expressing themselves, but not in a way that they’re actually heard.

Does that make sense?

[00:12:08] Kai Xin: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And it ties back to the sutta as well, the scripture on Right Speech (AN 5.198 Vācāsutta – Five factors of good speech). I guess besides being honest, and compassionate, it’s also very important to find the right time to do it. Whether people actually have the headspace to listen to what you want to say.

[00:12:24] Cynthia: Yeah. And I think that’s the other piece that happens too. A lot of times people will bring up really important conversations at the wrong time. Like when they see somebody else doing something, they’re being active and the other person wants to have a serious conversation, but the other person’s not gonna be able to respond at that moment.

Often when both people are heated and they both react, that’s also not the time to try to make things better often. At that moment it really is about how can I just calm this situation so that then we can maybe have a conversation at another point.

So, I think that that’s a really great point, and it has a lot to do with being available, to be present.

[00:13:08] Cheryl: Can I just dive a little bit deeper here? Because for me, I think it’s a very difficult balancing act to be direct, state what you want, state your boundaries in certain cases and be compassionate. Could you share an example of how we could perhaps soften the blow by providing feedback or asking for boundaries?

[00:13:28] Cynthia: I love that you used the word soften because that’s actually the practice itself of being in those difficult interactions to be able to express yourself in a compassionate way. But the actual work is to meet the person where they are at.

And see if you can move the conversation forward. So you know, if you are trying to say that, you would really like for the other person to take the trash out, let’s just say like a small example, right? You’re really going to them and saying, you know when you don’t take the trash out, I feel…

It’s based on feeling. So I feel frustrated, I feel confused, I feel misunderstood. And we all have two core feelings, which almost everything comes down to. So, it doesn’t matter the scenario, you will likely feel those two core feelings. My core feelings are stupid and invisible.

So with most things, like if there is an interaction that’s difficult, I’m feeling stupid or I’m feeling invisible, and when we understand that feeling, then we can actually express ourselves and speak because then we can say, you know, “When you don’t take the trash out, I feel invisible. You know, I know that that’s not your intention. Next week could we make it so that Monday and Wednesday you take the trash out and then Tuesday and Friday I take the trash out?” And then the other person will say, “Yes, I can do that.” And you’re like, “Great!” Or they can say, “No, I can’t do that.” And then you have the information to then decide, “Can I be okay with this?”

Like really, honestly okay with it to the point where it’s not something I talk to other people about, it’s not something I feel frustrated about, but it’s something that I can truly let go of and be like, okay, they just can’t commit to that right now and I’m okay with that.

My husband does not like to make the bed when we first started seeing each other. And I really like to have the bed made, so I asked him in the same way, “When you don’t make the bed, I feel invisible. Could you make the bed at least twice a week?” To which he responded at that time, “I’m not able to do that.”

And I was like, okay. So I was aware that he was not going to do it.

So I can either take that and be okay. Or maybe that’s a deal breaker for me, or maybe that’s something that I need to have another conversation about. But what’s also very interesting is that now he does.

[00:16:05] Cheryl: So what’s the secret there? What made him change from ‘no’ to ‘yes’?

[00:16:11] Cynthia: I think what he realized was that it was important to me. And I think that even though he said he wasn’t able to do it, I think he saw that for me, it was something that was important and I guess that’s why he chose to change. I mean, I don’t know why, but I’m happy that it happened.

[00:16:28] Cheryl: It seems that you were able to communicate the underlying need for the bit to be tidy, so it becomes something that’s more than just a chore, but more of like responding to your need.

Something that stood out to me here was how your request was very specific. You mentioned the frequency, how many times a week and the specific action that your partner could do. So I thought that was pretty cool and I am, again, very curious. How do you get to know your two core emotions?

[00:16:55] Cynthia: So to understand your two core emotions, if you think back on the last conversations or interactions you’ve had that have been difficult for you, where you went to your default reaction. So default reactions being like we can shut down, we can lash out, get passive-aggressive, dodge or walk away. We all have one that’s dominant and then it kind of dominoes the rest.

So if you think of an instance where you had that, then the idea is to sit and then think about what was I really feeling in that moment. This is what happened. What happened was he didn’t take the trash out, but what was truly happening like this seed, right? Was I feeling stupid? Most people will go to feeling angry or frustrated and yes, those are emotions. Though they’re very superficial and anybody can feel those things. And what you are really looking for is you, Cheryl, like, what is yours that’s just like specific to you.

And it takes a while. It might not be something that you can just pinpoint now. But what you’ll notice is that anytime you have a difficult interaction, it’s the same, like it’s the same feeling that’s there.

[00:18:12] Cheryl: Kai Xin any idea? What are your two core feelings?

[00:18:16] Kai Xin: It’s an interesting question. So I’m trying to recount some of the difficult conversations I have with people and the words that I repeatedly mentioned as to why I’m feeling upset. I think it boils down to feeling accused. So every time I feel accused, I would feel really triggered and really hurt by it.

[00:18:37] Cynthia: So when you’re in a conversation if you were to say, ‘I feel accused’, the other person may be distracted by that word. That word might prevent them from listening. So if you think underneath that, what is the feeling of feeling accused? As you feel at fault, you feel guilty, you feel …

[00:19:01] Kai Xin: not really so much of guilt. But just misunderstood.

[00:19:05] Cynthia: Well, so misunderstood is like, that’s a good one. Cause I think that if you look back at your other interactions, it could be there as well.

[00:19:14] Kai Xin: So you’re saying that the words that we choose to express our emotions and let the other party know is also very important because it affects the way that they receive it.

[00:19:23] Cynthia: A hundred percent yes.

[00:19:24] Kai Xin: Because accused is a very strong word. And then they might jump to a conclusion or assumption that …

[00:19:29] Cheryl: they are the ones who are accused. Yeah.

[00:19:31] Cynthia: Yeah. So you know, in like meditation when there’s like that moment where you get distracted and then you come back. So in conversation, it’s the same thing.

Sometimes we use language that distracts, that takes people out of what we want them to be paying attention to. And especially in a difficult interaction when you are expressing something to somebody and asking for them to potentially change or asking for a situation to be different. It’s important to use language that is going to keep them present instead of getting them going in their self-talk. The self-talk of like, I can’t believe this person thinks that. Why in the world would she say that to me?

And so the core feelings, when you have them, like the misunderstood piece, let’s just say, when you share that, that feels very different, right? The other person can be able to see that an action that they’ve done is affecting you. And most people care for each other. And so when they hear that something that they’re doing is affecting a person that they care for, the want is to be helpful. Because that’s our true nature. Our true nature is to be helpful.

[00:20:49] Kai Xin: And how do you argue, well, such that it doesn’t come across as being too demanding? Because just now you mentioned about making the bed. It can seem like it’s just a very small thing. Why are you throwing a big fuzz out of it? What if people can’t see the connection between how a small task actually linked to a deeper sense of wanting to be seen, wanting to, in your case to not feel invisible?

[00:21:15] Cynthia: Yeah. So I think it has to do again with, you come to, let’s say the task and it doesn’t come out as, can you, can you make the bed? this has been something that bothers me and annoys me. Could you make the bed? That’s very different than if you’re having more of a conversation and you’re like, oh, hey, I’ve been thinking about it. And you know, when you don’t make the bed, I feel really invisible. I know that’s not your intention, but the next time, would you be able to commit to making the bed on Mondays and Wednesdays?

And it’s really that same phrasing over and over that you’re using because the focus isn’t on the other person. Because what we end up starting to see as we start to practice more around this type of communication, which is really to help ourselves and others suffer less, is that most of the work is us figuring out what it is that we want, what it is that we need, and the focus is more on us than it is on the other person.

So it’s not on something that they did wrong, but it’s on something that we want and need to feel better and to thrive and for this relationship to grow and for this relationship to feel connected. And so all of that can be talked to. All of that can be said. It’s like, when you make the bed, I just wanna run over there, give you a hug and a kiss and be like, gosh, that feels so good. You just filled my bucket up to a hundred percent. What can I do to fill up your bucket a hundred percent?

You turn something that could become an argument into something that’s like, when you do this, this is, this is the feeling it gives me and I love when I feel that way and I want that to be the way that you feel as well, instead of where we often go, which is more towards — what’s not happening, what should be happening, what we wish would be. It’s a different trajectory. Does that answer the question?

[00:23:12] Kai Xin: Yeah. Kind of. So it’s really about emphasizing why it matters to you, so you help them see the picture. I’m just wondering, what if the response or the reaction is not what we desire?

[00:23:25] Cynthia: I mean, most people want it to go well all the time, right? And that would be lovely if it did, but we cannot control another person. We can’t control their reactions. So, it’s practising detachment from the other person’s reactions. Being able to see them as separate from you so that you can hold space for them. So, in the moment, you express something and they are like, no, I can’t do that, or, that’s ridiculous, or I can’t even believe you’re asking me that. You are there and you’re not hooked into the language, but you’re just like, oh, I see this person that I care for, and they’re feeling uncomfortable right now. Like they’re suffering right now. They’re feeling hurt. They’ve moved into their default reaction because they’re feeling attacked by what I’m saying.

You witness it, you observe it, and you let them have it. And then when they’re finished with their reaction, you either come back to your original question that you were asking or you can connect in a different way, being able to say, I see that what I’ve said hurt you, or it feels to me that you’re upset in some way. I’d love to actually have a conversation about it, how did I say it that was affecting you. And so it opens up a dialogue.

But the practice in that moment is to be able to allow somebody to have a reaction. We want it to be good, we want the outcome to be what we want it to be, and also knowing that if it’s not, we can navigate it. If it’s not, it doesn’t mean that our value changes.

If it’s not, it doesn’t mean that the relationship is bad or it’s doomed or anything like that. It simply means that, this person is feeling something, and I wanna honour it so that we can then come together around it.

[00:25:19] Kai Xin: That’s really beautiful. So it’s holding space for either reactions without the expectation that it always has to be right.

It’s kind of like sitting in meditation. Having the expectation that we need to be peaceful, but it’s about being there, just watching the emotions.

[00:25:34] Cynthia: Right.

[00:25:35] Cheryl: But I think it’s so hard though. I feel like it’s so hard because especially when you’re in a relationship, everything is intertwined. So it’s really hard to kind of detach yourself from the person and detach your expectations from the person as well.

[00:25:49] Cynthia: Yeah. It’s more like moving into the space of can you acknowledge and not empathize? It is the same as meditation, right? Like, can you see and witness what’s happening without getting hooked on what’s happening? And it’s not that you are not listening. But it is the idea that you are caring for yourself in that moment and holding space for the other person because your work is really to keep the integrity of the conversation.

So if you start to see that the conversation is moving in a hurtful direction, you then practice understanding, how can I get this back to being helpful? And that can look a lot of different ways in the moment and one of them is really just being able to be compassionate. So, like we sit along the suffering of someone else. If we’re in a difficult reaction and the other person is reacting because they are suffering in some way and we’re angry at them for that, or we’re just mad that it’s happening. We’re not actually sitting next to them in that space. We’re punishing them for that. And ourselves.

[00:26:56] Cheryl: So powerful. And I guess an extension of that is how do we communicate when we have hurt others? So when we hurt other people, because nobody’s perfect, and sometimes tempers are bound to arise, how do we actually repair and reconnect again, in a way that is not just a superficial plaster on the wound, but really piecing things back and making sure the trust is rebuilt again.

[00:27:23] Cynthia: So I think the first thing that happens if we’ve hurt someone is self-forgiveness. To feel the sadness and to feel the frustration at ourselves and the anger at ourselves and to love ourselves through that. So often we wanna push those feelings away. Ignore it. And it’s hard to sit with something that we’ve done that was hurtful. And to just acknowledge our role within it.

When we do get to the place where we can say yes, and you really own the truth of it, you’re really honest about it, there is a sense of freedom that comes with that. The sensation of the pain diminishes a little bit when we can just say, this is something that I’ve done and, I forgive myself for it. Or just the phrasing of — even though this happened, I deeply and completely love and accept myself, I’m still a good person.

And then once we’ve gotten to the place where we’re aware of what we’ve done and we understand it in the sense that maybe this person said this and then I felt this, or it brought me back to this experience that I had in the past that made me nervous that this was going to happen again. And so this is what I did. We start to bring awareness to the event itself. And then from there, then we can go to the other person and let them know what it is that we have figured out. It’s not just like, “I’m sorry for what happened”. It’s, “I’ve thought about it and I understand that I was wrong”, or, “I understand that the way that I expressed that to you wasn’t helpful. It was hurtful. I was being judgemental. I was acting from a place of better than and I just want you to know that I’m aware of it. I am sorry and I commit to doing better.”

It’s the idea that there’s like a commitment to not repeating. But I think the repair really comes more from the understanding of where the other person is, why they’re there, why they’re in that space, owning the mistake that you potentially made, and just seeing if there’s a way to move forward from it.

And it can happen at any time. It doesn’t have to be something that just happened either. I’ve worked with people who have had wounds for years and have not addressed or gone back to it. It’s completely overtaken them, and then they’re able to go back and have those conversations, especially in like family dynamics. There can be a lot of …

[00:30:02] Cheryl: buttons that can be pressed.

[00:30:04] Cynthia: Yeah. A lot of buttons. And so being able to go back to those moments, even if they happened years ago and, and talked to them without judgment or without blame. Just for what it is, this is what happened and, I assume responsibility for X, Y, Z and yeah.

[00:30:26] Cheryl: I think it’s very interesting that the first step that you shared was to understand it within yourself and to really process it within oneself. I was semi-expecting you to say, okay, this is the framework to apologize, you know, this is what you should say, and then how it would be a perfect apology.

So I thought it was very interesting and it does make the apology so much more meaningful and sincere as well. I guess sometimes even once you go through that process, you realize that you do not know how to not hurt that person. Sometimes, it is for you to really ask your partner, “how can I not hurt you again?”, or, “How can I love you better?”

[00:31:06] Cynthia: Yeah, that’s so beautiful. Yeah, it’s true. A lot of people will be like, well, I just wanna say the right thing, so what’s the right thing to say? Right? Give me scripts. This is really about understanding that you already have within you the language that is kind, honest, and helpful. It’s just a matter of slowing down, owning our own suffering in the moment, and seeing what’s inside for us to be able to express.

So much up to this point, it does get pushed down. There are a lot of layers that are on top of that have to breathe and open so that we can access what is it that we truly want in this moment in terms of connection.

[00:31:48] Cheryl: It becomes very clear from the course of this conversation that having good communication with others and subsequently good relationship with others, is a soft skill in a way, but it’s also very much dependent on how much you have a good relationship with yourself and build that awareness within with compassion and love.

I know Kai Xin is probably giving me daggers because of the timing, but I have questions, Cynthia, that I really need to ask you.

[00:32:11] Kai Xin: I feel accused when you say that. *joking*

[00:32:17] Cheryl: I’m sorry *laughs*

[00:32:18] Kai Xin: No, go ahead.

[00:32:20] Cheryl: *laughs* Yeah, but so far we have been talking about, you know, taking the trash out about the bed being tidy, but how do we communicate when it comes to bigger issues like how I want to raise my child, what relationship my child should be taking, or how much time I want to spend with you, or whether I want to introduce you to my parents. So these are bigger questions and will potentially make it or break it for a lot of relationships. So how do you suggest we navigate those?

[00:32:48] Cynthia: So with bigger conversations, I think the biggest piece is to slow down, to really slow down the conversation itself. It’s really about kind of preparing for them beforehand in terms of understanding what is the outcome that you’re looking for from this conversation and understanding how you want the other person to feel in this conversation. How do you want to feel in this conversation? Visualizing how you want the interaction to go is very helpful. Then, you show up with the guidelines, which is really to connect in a kind, honest, and helpful way.

The practice is slowing down. Owning your own suffering in the moment. If you’re talking and your partner says something, feel the sensation in the body because that’s the first cue to everything, the sensation that happens. So you feel the sensation and you’re like, oh, wow, okay. I’m feeling really heated right now. I know that I’m about to yell at him or her. I know that I’m about to get really defensive. Then you come out and you start talking to yourself differently.

And you’re like, okay, we’re feeling misunderstood right now. We’re feeling invisible right now. We’re feeling stupid. It’s okay. We’ve got this. We’re okay. And then we take a big deep breath and we realize, okay, what are my hands doing? What are my feet doing? What’s my belly doing? Then I can look at the person in front of me, and then I can hold space for how they’re talking, right? Then when they’re done, then I can see what’s needed in this conversation. Then I can see, you know, I wanna be helpful, that’s my intention. So if I wanna be helpful, what is going to make this conversation easier?

I think that it’s understanding that each person has different ideas of what is potentially right or different beliefs. And it’s not about trying to win, it’s not about trying to convince. The way I see it, each person is holding something very, very important to them that they really wanna talk to and they really want another person to understand. And it’s not always about understanding exactly what the other person says, but it is about letting the other person say it so that you can hear it and then you can then choose the best way for you then to share your information.

So I think in more difficult conversations, it’s really understanding that so much of it is being able to have a conversation. The only way for us to have a conversation is if we are open to listening to ourselves and not shutting the other person down, and open to engaging with something we might not understand. When we become more curious, we ask more questions. It’s less about winning and convincing and more about clarity, finding clarity in these moments to come to a decision potentially together.

[00:35:58] Cheryl: And I think with curiosity and having the safe space there as well, it probably opens up to the needs that are important to the person. So not so much about whether the view is right or not but what the views mean to the person, the need for the identity that has shaped their lives.

[00:36:17] Cynthia: And I think it’s not even necessarily coming to a decision on something either. So with difficult conversations, I usually talk about three different pieces to a difficult conversation. Usually what we do is we do the first one or we do the third one.

  1. The second conversation at another time is potentially asking for something to be different or, you know, in a bigger conversation, it might look like, would you think about potentially raising our children in both religions? Is that something that you could think about? Those types of questions.
  2. The first one is sharing what’s bothering us, or what the issue is. You’re not doing anything else. You’re just having that one conversation where you’re sharing what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling and what’s coming up for you.
  3. Then you move on to the third, which is making a decision.

So you’re slowing everything down. It’s not that you have one conversation, and that conversation is like the answer to the entire thing. You have like three separate conversations. You give air to it, you give breath to it, you give time to it. And most often where we go is we either share and then we get upset that the other person isn’t doing something different, right?

But we haven’t asked for anything to be different. And then the third, or we go straight to like, I’m making this decision and this is happening, and the other person might just be completely surprised because they have no idea that we were even feeling this way.

[00:37:49] Kai Xin: And they have no time to process as well to come to a decision. What if after the discussion, it’s still fuzzy? You can’t really move for. For example, how to raise a kid. You’re already married. So, unfortunately, if that’s a deal breaker, do you meet in the middle? Like how, how does it work?

[00:38:07] Cynthia: Yeah. You meet in the middle. In the sense that there are going to be some things that your partner does that you don’t agree with, and there’s gonna be things that you do that they don’t agree with, and the things that they are, have to be okay, like, okay for you. If they’re not, then that requires more thought and potentially another discussion. But usually, in those instances, one person will have to pull back on their judgment. They’ll have to start noticing when they’re judging, or they’ll have to start noticing when they’re thinking that they’re better than or they’re right and the other person’s wrong.

And the same thing, the other person then has to do the same. As long as the child is not in danger in any way. It is about coming together to see, you know, I am okay with this. I don’t absolutely love this, but I’m okay in these moments that it’s happening. I can allow it to happen. And the same has to be true on the other end too.

[00:39:09] Kai Xin: So it’s understanding what are the aspects that are negotiable, flexible, and what are some of the non-negotiables.

[00:39:17] Cynthia: Right, the non-negotiables. So I have two little kids and we had a lot of discussions before having kids. I was very clear, this is the way that I want to raise my kids. This is what I’m thinking, this is what I’m feeling right now. With understanding, it’s possible that when we have children, I’m gonna think completely differently. And I think it’s important though to have those types of conversations before and during. But I think if you can set it up before, it makes it a lot easier to understand kind of what the potential expectation is.

Cause what’s hard is we all come from different backgrounds and so I think that sometimes when we come together and we have children, it’s easy to just think like, this is the way it’s gonna be cause this is what it was for me. And then the other person’s like, well this is the way it’s gonna be cause this is what it was for me, or I want something different and I want something different. And we have to talk about it or else we just expect it to look a certain way and it doesn’t.

[00:40:14] Kai Xin: And, it might end up hurting the child.

[00:40:16] Cynthia: Yes, it does. Yeah. It makes it very confusing, right? And so that’s why it is important even if each person has kind of a different opinion on something, if you can find a way to come together to at least, it might not be a hundred percent what the other person wants, but it’s doable. It’s better for the child because then it’s consistent.

[00:40:36] Kai Xin: I do have one last question regarding how to end a difficult conversation. So let’s say it is about very deferring values and there’s no way to even meet halfway, then how do you move forward from there?

[00:40:55] Cynthia: So if there’s no way to meet halfway, you become really clear with yourself on one, is it okay for you to stay or not? If it is, it’s the same in the sense that you have to be a hundred percent honest with yourself that you can let it go because if you can’t, then it ends up coming out in your interactions, right? You end up blaming angry, judgmental, passive, aggressive, all the things. Then, it will just ruin the relationship in a lot of ways. So you have to be a hundred percent clear that you’re like, I’m okay with this. I go in this direction.

Or if you’re not okay with it, then you end up having a conversation which is around, you know, I’ve given this a lot of thought and I’m not able to meet in the middle, and it breaks my heart and this is the motions that I’m feeling and I also know that this is the right direction for me.

And then you hold space for the other person’s reaction because it’s really important that we take care of our own suffering first. And to know if we are going to put ourselves in a position to keep suffering. If we have that moment, that choice point moment, we get to say no. This isn’t the right path for me and to be able to share that.

And again, you feel that fear of what the other person’s reaction could be. And knowing that it’s okay, you just have to hold space for the reaction. It’s not saying that it doesn’t hurt, and it’s not saying that it’s easy, but it really is about being a hundred percent honest with yourself, helpful and kind right and necessary.

[00:42:35] Cheryl: And the choice point moment is not always very clear, like in neon light or something. It is always conflicting with like guilt. And is this the right choice? Am I just sabotaging myself?

[00:42:48] Cynthia: I think that most of the time when we ask ourselves those questions, really just taking that moment to sit, ask ourselves the question, listen for the answer, because we know often we know what the answer is, even though it’s hard.

[00:43:01] Kai Xin: Thank you. It’s been such a great conversation. I’ve learned so much and I am thinking, just a small ad hoc request, talking about holding space, would it be too much to ask if we were to have you just lead a one-minute guided meditation just to hold space for ourselves after listening to all of this?

[00:43:22] Cynthia: So you can go ahead and settle into your space and close your eyes, and we can take three long, slow, deep breaths, just inhaling fully through the nostrils and exhaling deeply.

Let the breathing return to its natural rhythm. There’s no need to force or control the breath. Just let it be natural.

You can bring your attention to the sounds around you, just noticing the silence or birds or wherever you are.

And if you feel comfortable, you can bring your hand to your heart centre just over your chest.

And silently say,

May I know love. May I know joy. May I know peace. May I be free from suffering. May I live with ease.

May I know love. May I know joy. May I know peace. May I be free from suffering. May I live with ease.

You can bring your hand back down and just put your attention on the breath, wherever you feel the breath most clearly in the body. So maybe at the nose or the abdomen and the belly, and let go of the breath. Just sit in stillness.

When you’re ready, you can start to circle the wrists, maybe roll the shoulders up back, circle the head.

Blink the eyes open. Just notice the shapes and colours around and come back.

[00:47:39] Cheryl: Thank you so much, Cynthia. That was wonderful.

[00:47:43] Cynthia: Thank you.


More about Cynthia and her works:

https://kanecommunicate.com/ 

https://cynthiakane.com/

Cynthia is offering a free mini-course to our listeners. It is called Communicate with Confidence: Click here to redeem


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Tan Key Seng, Soh Hwee Hoon, Geraldine Tay, Venerable You Guang, Wilson Ng, Diga, Joyce

#WW: 🤭And…I wish I didn’t say that

#WW: 🤭And…I wish I didn’t say that

Wholesome Wednesdays (WW): Bringing you curated positive content on Wednesdays to uplift your hump day.

We often talk about finding love. However, it is rare to talk about how we can maintain love. With Valentine’s Day just flying pass us, how do we maintain relationships? (Clue: It has nothing to do with creating catchy couple hashtags). Here are two stories we have got for you today!

1. How to not screw up your relationship with poor communication

2. Overthinking? This horse’s advice might help you

How to not screw up your relationship with poor communication

purple and yellow abstract painting
Unsplash: Poor Communication

What’s going on here

Nawal, an Instagrammer who talks about neurology, shares four ways we can screw up our relationships by communicating wrongly. Avoid the four horsemen: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling. Use the antidotes she recommends!

Why we like it

Nawal places the 4 things to avoid in a relationship in a very accessible manner with the solutions to them. We all have tendencies to fall into one of these traps especially when talking about difficult topics in a relationship/friendship. Don’t kick the can down the road and engage mindfully and holistically!

“When the conflict becomes too much to handle, people might fade out of the conversation by turning away, staying quiet, replying with one word, or completely ignoring the partner. This is ineffective because it’s an evasive response where no problems are solved.”

Wise Steps

Be very mindful of any of these horsemen in your relationships. Capture them before they capture you

Read it here or below

2. Overthinking? This horse’s advice might help you

woman covering eyes with hand
Unsplash

What’s going on here

A Grenfell Firefighter shares how he overcomes overthinking by borrowing a quote from The Boy, the mole, the fox, and the horse. He shares how that quote helps us to shift from a huge far-away goal towards our next step.

Why we like it

“Think long term!” can sometimes be jarring advice as we navigate an uncertain world. This Tiktok video helps us to prioritise what matters now and reduce the overthinkers in us.

“We look at how long a journey it is and feel overwhelmed. Instead of thinking of that. Just go right, I am not going to worry about that because that will come”

Wise Steps

Sometimes we tend to tie our self worth to huge outcomes, crippling us from taking the first step. Maybe just start by taking the steps ahead of us!

Enjoy the video here or below!


My 3 Lessons Learnt From LDR

My 3 Lessons Learnt From LDR

TLDR: Surviving a long-distance relationship is not easy and some say it’s a work of art. It requires firm conviction with a goal in mind, effective and mindful communication as well as the willingness to compromise.

“Hey, since you are enlisting soon, aren’t you afraid of long-distance relationships (LDR)?”, “You are going to Tekong, how is your relationship going to survive?” 

These were the exact words directed to me when I enlisted back in 2016. I am certain I am not the first to receive such comments. As a terribly unromantic person, I had concerns about keeping the relationship going. 

Thankfully, despite the distance, my partner and I recently celebrated our 5th anniversary. We have emerged stronger and closer than ever before.

Before sharing my observations, it’s crucial to note that LDR has the disadvantage of being subjective. Hence, no single manual works for everyone.

Nevertheless, I hope my 3 observations provide a brief guide to survive the “apocalyptic nature” of LDR.

1. Sharing Commonalities

It’s a common misconception that sharing commonalities means sharing common interests and hobbies. Of course, when both parties share the same goals, values, interests and hobbies,  this alignment ideally benefits any relationship.

What happens when interests diverge? Do relationships naturally break apart due to the lack of shared passions? 

The sustenance of a relationship need not be based on shared hobbies. My partner and I are on the opposite ends of many spectra. I am more liberal while she is conservative; she is idealistic while I am pragmatic. Touch is her love language while I prefer to take a step back. 

We do not share many common interests. I find her interest in Korean drama stodgy while she sees my interest in books boring. However, we share the common goal of tying the knot. To me, having an end goal in mind is crucial as it sets the relationship’s foundation in place.

The author & his partner celebrating their 5th-anniversary over dinner

With a firm foundation, both parties can erect pillars to grow their relationship.

Just like the black pepper tree that requires a stake to lean on to grow, every relationship would require a pillar with a firm base. This helps in both managing conflict and strengthening communication.

Many conflicts in relationships arise from selfish thinking and rash decisions made without consultation. Working towards the goal of marriage, my partner and I discussed issues ranging from career pathways, education prospects, investment and housing plans, and even which side of the family will look after our future kids. 

We thought that if we aligned from the start, there is less chance of being in a rude shock when communication falters. If one individual was prepared for marriage but the partner refused to be tied down, it would end in eventual separation. 

In the inevitable ups and downs of a relationship, having a pillar of shared commonalities mitigate squabbles. A firm foundation realigns us back on course if we deviate.  

Living in a separate time zone, I often take Singapore’s safety for granted and forget to check if she is back home safely from work. A conflict might arise if there is an assumption of me lacking the effort to show concern.

Now and then, we clash over ‘trivial’ pickings. I would much rather have these ‘trivial’ arguments than have her suspect my intentions when I am abroad. This is because she knows that we have marriage as the end goal.

By doing so, trust is built. We may argue over the ‘processes’ but never the outcome. In turn, she understands that I live by the Buddhist’s 5 precepts and thus has the faith in me to do the right thing. 

2. Mindful Communication

Communicating effectively is a crucial aspect of any relationship. The willingness to communicate effectively. At the start, it was difficult. We were both used to the physical presence of one another. 

From meeting up and chatting all day to not even chatting at all on some days was tough.

As a result, we fought a lot more. However, we realized what we fought over was not due to the absence of physical presence. What we fought over was the lack of effective communication.

Effective communication entails presenting your views, feelings and values in the way best understood by the receiver. I was not doing that. When we spoke, my replies were often monologue, indirect and anti-climactic. I was merely regurgitating what happened throughout the day and mainly talking about “myself”.

I assumed that sharing my daily overseas routine would keep the conversation going and promote understanding. These assumptions proved to be wrong. While it is instinctively in our nature to talk about ourselves to feel a sense of validation and sympathy, boredom eventually sets in and attention wanders.

Such boredom or agitation is a result of your neural receptors being starved of the attention needed to feel a sense of self-validation.

In simple terms, people don’t always want to listen to everything about you. 

My self-esteem was boosted at the expense of my partner and it soon became one-way traffic where our communication was living off the other. There wasn’t an outlet for her to express her daily discontent or the opportunity to talk about “herself”.

Being aware of this, we made the effort to rectify it and that has helped us tremendously in our LDR since. Be mindful of the tendency to unconsciously fall into the “Self-Appreciating trap”. We unintentionally fall for such traps because we are not mindful of our speech. The lack of tack in our speech tends to cause offence, which may gravely affect our relationship. 

The Buddhist teachings of the noble eightfold paths include right speech as one of its core tenets. I view right speech as not just abstention from telling lies, slander or abusive language but also mindful speaking. 

Being aware of how we speak and what we talk about, clear boundaries are set.

As I hone my mindfulness, I started talking less about myself and presented my partner with opportunities to speak up. Our communication soon improved and became a two-way street.

Moreover, incorporating mindfulness in our everyday speech and actions allowed us to be considerate of one another’s needs.  

By practising mindfulness, we have transformed the way my partner and I communicate and have mitigated many potential flashpoints. Until today, even when I am studying abroad, our communication has improved and that boils down to being aware of how we communicate.

3. Put in the Effort & be Willing to Compromise

Humans can be selfish. However, we humans can cooperate too. Each partner can coexist in a relationship but opt to pursue his/her interest. Be it to flaunt the relationship as social status or to be satisfying sexual needs. If one is not putting in the effort into the relationship and is bent on pursuing his/her own “selfish” endeavours, the relationship is unlikely to last.

It takes two hands to clap. For the couple to succeed in a relationship, they must put away their differences, identify potential weaknesses and cooperate to work towards the goal.

If both parties share the same commonalities, then the relationship has a set goal.

However, the outcomes only become real if the process is set in place and acted upon through effort. 

This involves compromising on some of your interests for the relationship. For example, living in different time zones, I had to stay up past midnight and she would wake up early to skype. Although this does not seem like much, it reflects two points in maintaining a healthy LDR: 

Firstly, we both share the same commonality and are willing to put in the effort to achieve it. Secondly, that process meant that both parties had to compromise, forgo sleep, etc to keep the relationship growing. 

My mentor once mentioned, “Sharing similar hobbies doesn’t necessarily make the relationship work, it’s about you putting in the effort to settle your differences and make sure it works. It’s important to note that every relationship is a collective effort. Both parties must be prepared to put in the effort and willing to sacrifice some short-term interest for longer ones.”  

Closing Thoughts

Undergoing an LDR or any relationship for that matter is no easy feat. Our relationship had to overcome numerous obstacles and social stigmas. However, our relative success can be attributed to these 3 takeaways. 

These 3 lessons must be seen as complementary to one another and not mutually exclusive. Like me and many others who have gone through LDR, it’s not going to be easy but it is possible if one bears these 3 lessons in mind. In any relationship, it always takes two hands to clap.


Wise Steps:

  • Develop commonality in your relationship on how you envision it to be and the dreams you hold together
  • Practice mindful communication with your partner by avoiding the ‘self-appreciating trap’
  • Be willing to compromise, even if it means putting your ego & interest aside.
What We See In The World Is A Mirror Of Ourselves

What We See In The World Is A Mirror Of Ourselves

TLDR: Although we view others and ourselves as acting and speaking independently from one another, all of our speech and action are our own projections. Others are a mirror of our state of consciousness. 

This is a reflection piece as contemplated by the author based on the Buddha’s teachings. As such, it may not contain the truths as taught by the Buddha. The author hopes the reader takes away useful bits that may resonate and discard whatever parts that make no sense without any aversion.

In Buddhist psychology, the Buddha gave an insight into how we ordinarily experience the world. We are sense based beings and we experience our world through the six senses. They are – the senses of the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, touch and mind. The mind is a sense base object because it comes into contact with the world of ideas dependent on the other senses. Mind in western psychology is the physical brain. It makes sense because the brain receives signals from the other sense bases to create an idea. However, the mind in Buddhism has been translated as awareness and consciousness. The translators of Theravada Buddhist suttas used the word, ‘citta’ in Pali. The word citta includes the mind and the heart. The Buddha did not point to the brain specifically as the mind. He was pointing for us to look at our consciousness. The function of consciousness is a state of knowing and in the teaching of the five aggregates, it seems that consciousness has been intertwined with the sense bases. 

How We View Our World

In our ordinary perception of the world, we come into contact with people and the environment. When it comes to our interaction with others, we sometimes think that other people make assumptions about us. We also think we are accurate accessors of other people’s needs and thoughts, and therefore they may need our opinions. In this way, we often come away in frustrations communicating with the vast majority of people who do not listen to us, just as we do not listen to them.

Although we think that whatever action or words we perceive is made independently by each individual, if we look close enough, what we see, hear, touch, smell or think in the world is but a mirror of ourselves.

We Cannot Perceive What We Don’t Know

Ayya Khema, a well-known German Buddhist nun who taught in the late 20th century, said we cannot see in another person what we don’t know or do not have within us. For example, when we see another person angry, we can see it is anger and something we dislike. That is because we know anger and we have it in us, and so we react to the person who is angry. 

We understand mundane affection, and so we see it as love and something permanent. She said we would not understand what we do not have. The unconditional love of an arahant is hard to understand and we wouldn’t know even if we stand next to him or her. That is because it is something we do not understand as we do not have unconditional love in us. We may only be able to perceive an arahant as quiet and reserved instead of lovable because we don’t know what unconditional love is. An arahant is someone who attained enlightenment in Buddhism. You can also call an arahant a saint.

Our Daily Interaction With Others

Thinking about what Ayya Khema taught, it occurred to me that this happens all the time. Our interaction with others is always about ourselves because we can only talk about and react to what is within us. 

For example, I was at a dinner with friends at one of their homes. This friend is a vegetarian, she does yoga and enjoys studying Buddhism. In my mind, she seemed to enjoy clean living. But she revealed that she still smokes, though only socially. I gave a look of surprise. She remarked that smoking isn’t a bad thing and does not make one a bad person. I was surprised she said that. That is because I never thought smoking makes anyone a bad person.

Earlier on, I had also encouraged the group of friends to practice what they learnt as opposed to mainly studying. However, instead of seeing it as a form of encouragement, they thought I was disparaging their form of practice. So you see, they said I was disparaging because they could not see or understand my sharing of the experience of spiritual practice. I, on the other hand, could not see or understand the pleasant experience they gained from intellectualising spiritual texts instead of probing it in real life. We simply were projecting onto each other what we know rather than speaking each other’s language.

In another example, my helper had been unwell with allergic rhinitis for sometime. Despite medicine from the general practitioner, she did not recover. She also did not want to consistently take the supplements I offered or accept my offer to bring her to a Chinese doctor. Again, I could not see or know her world and so out of frustration I made a comment that she is always sick. Right after making that comment, I realised I was seeing in her what I dislike – being sick. I was also saying only what I know in my world to her – being sick is not a good thing. I regretted my comment immediately upon realising what I had done as I seemed to be blaming her for being sick when it is normal to be ill.

Listening Is Better Than Speaking

These daily episodes made me realise that most of our interaction seems to be a futile business. We are always talking about what we know and consistently projecting ourselves onto another person. There seems not to be any useful speech except for sharing the dhamma and interaction for the purpose of completing tasks at work.

Listening is indeed better than talking. When we think, we think from our vantage point. When we speak, we push onto others only what we know within us and not what the other person needs.

Another thing that struck me is, we can really only be mindful when we pay attention even when speaking. I have not been totally successful in using speech as an object of mindfulness. When I managed to do it for a while, I saw that whatever that came out of my mouth is about myself. Other than that, I found that ordinary speech is a form of entertainment so that we can let the mind loose and rattle on. Ayya Khema also pointed out that only when we have let go of ill will or greed, then we will not react to others. That is because we do not have these tendencies in us anymore to recognise them in others.

Being with others can help us realise many things about the nature of our consciousness taught by the Buddha and his Sangha. When we can see the state of our consciousness, can we purify it by letting go of what makes us discontented and unhappy?


Wise Steps:

  • Experiment with the inanimate objects around you without labeling to find out how it changes your reaction.
  • Observe what you say and how you act in communication with others. Are the words you say truly what the other person wants to hear or is it just about you?
  • Instead of chiming in with your opinions, try to listen more and see if the interaction with others changes from your usual communication with them.